Saturday, February 04, 2012

KJ and Rafizi




Watch the debate in London between two young Malaysians of the Vision 2020 generation", on ISA, 1Malaysia/unity, reforms, and problems with their parties. Heartening to listen to both paying tribute to Dr Mahathir Mohamad. 

This was before Dr M told Bloomberg h e r e that Anwar Ibrahim would turn the country "upside-down" if he wins in the next general election.


40 comments:

Anonymous said...

Rocky,

What's Mahathir Talking About?!

Mahathir HAS ALREADY TURNED THE COUNTRY UPSIDE DOWN!

What the opposition is trying to do now is to bring it back to its right side up!!



Mathadir

Anonymous said...

Ok la latuk. If there is such Prime Minister Election in Malaysia, I will vote Khairi Jamaluddin as PM and Rafizi Ramli as his Deputy.

*AtasPagar

Anonymous said...

I've watched this debate. What is so good about it is that it was all so civilised.
Both in their own way are good speakers, able to articulate and get their points across.
I've not heard of this young man from pkr before and i'm quite impressed. I'm afraid i hold the impression that all of them are in the mould of anwar/chegubard/tian chua, all rant but "kosong" as to content.
I'm neither a bn person nor pr supporter, but tell me why you and other pro-umno bloggers hate kj so much? This is the third time i've heard him speak and he is intelligent, articulate and witty. I can't imagine any other Umno man able to stand up and debate (either in English or Malay). If u ask me, he's an asset to your party, bn, and the country. Heck, even that pkkr fella issued an open invitation to join opposition.
Pls lah dont kill KJ's careeer.

I've met him in person during the ulu selangor elections. He really cd engage us young people and do you know whereever he went during that campaign there were many young people on the opposition side yelling to him "hey, come join us!". He has that!

Cheers YB Khairy.

N.M.I

Anonymous said...

well done..inspired me to involve in society..and make differences.. yeaaahhh..

gen v2020

Anonymous said...

what is KJ doing in london, i thought there is so much job to be done in Rembau Parliamentary?

Jasper Bloodstone said...

Purely by coincidence, I read a report "Najib at bay" in the latest (Feb 4-10, 2012) issue of 'The Economist' magazine.

The Singapore New Paper summarized that report under the heading "PM Najib heading towards "electoral disaster""

"Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak may be courting "electoral disaster" as his reforms have alienated his own party and are not convincing to those in the centrist camp, The Economist suggested.

"In a story titled "Najib at bay", the magazine reported that Mr Najib, as Umno President, is at odds with his own party concerning Malay privileges. It argued that his inability to win over the Umno hardliners on this issue could cost him politically.

"The report added that reformists in Umno are frustrated with the slow pace of reforms. The lack of support for Mr Najib within his own party could lead to "electoral disaster", it concluded."

Of course, we all know that The Economist is anathema to Umno rightists, hardliners and conservative bloggers and is often accused of interference in Malaysian affairs as well as being a Trojan horse for the Opposition.

We look forward to a factual and reasoned rebuttal of this report in The Economist by the intellectuals in Umno or by the more erudite bloggers like bigDog, ABITW or even the warrior.

Anonymous said...

Haha, I guess the country is already upside down, and if AI were to turn it upside down again, guess the country would then stand upright once more?

Old Fart said...

That old man talks a whole lot of nonsense doesn't he? He won't stand a chance in any debate with Rafizi or KJ. Lets not waste time with him debating Anwar.

Anonymous said...

Bru,
Sorry to deviate from topic, but can u comment on d proposed 1care scheme? Sounds like a huge injustice, esp to those in private sector like me.
-Pingdriver.

Anonymous said...

Pakatan people forgot that they were the one condemning KJ and Pak Lah before 2008. Remember RPK's Khairy Chronicles? With all those dodgy deals and corruption incidences hanging over KJ's head like a sword of damocles, the pakatan supporter at 2.38pm above still wanna ask why KJ is hated by Umno? HE IS HATED BECAUSE HE AND HIS BAPAK MERTUA WERE THE REASONS WHY PAKATAN HAD AN EASY RIDE AND BN LOST 5 STATES AND THEIR TWO THIRDS MAJORITY.

Sudah lupa ka?!?!

monsterball said...

If you view the whole video....you will conclude...PAS Rafizi got KJ blinking and lost in the woods.
Some may agree...some may not...who cares.
You think "1Care" really cares too?

Anonymous said...

kenapa respect orang tua. TUN M banyak jasanya dan sumbangan kepada negara dan rakyat.

Anonymous said...

Old Fart,

How to stand a chance in any debate with Anwar? NO CHANCE LAH.

BECAUSE ANWAR ONLY KNOWS HOW TO TALK COCKS......

Lee said...

Both are good.Due credit should be given to the organizer and to both of them for debating in a civilized manner.Both score points and were witty.In my opinion Rafizi won the debate, being more down to earth and, therefore, more credible!

Anonymous said...

Dear Dato,

correct me if I am wrong but lately you appear to go soft on KJ. have you forgotten how he demonise Tun M during his FIL's time? i hope you have not forgotten that!

silvershamir said...

If only the present upper echeleon of malaysian politics have the balls to do what these two young malaysians did- the courage and esp.the openness in debating and giving their views. I have to admit this debate has actually changed my opinion on KJ. He has the intelligence, articulation and openness which many in UMNO doesnt have. Same of Rafizi. Both of them should work together!

Anonymous said...

N.M.I @ 6:38 PM

anwar is also a charismatic speaker who sways thousands

but his actions NEVER match his eloquent promises

kj is another NATO (no action talk only)

Anonymous said...

haha kj admirers

remember him on a catwalk with his wife - jack of all trades master of none

Anonymous said...

Sdr,

Perbezaan antara orang yang terlalu banyak dan pandai bercakap dengan mereka yang bercakap berdasarkan pengalaman dan ilmu.

Orang bercakap berdasarkan ilmu dan pengalaman adalah lebih besar makna berbanding yang hanya sekadar pandai dan bercakap berapi-api.

Itulah bezanya antara percakapan orang berilmu dan mengamalkan ilmunya; orang yang berilmu, tetapi tidak mengamalkan ilmunya; dan orang yang tidak berilmu.

Orang berilmu dan mengamalkan ilmu apabila dia bercakap dia sebenarnya mengingatkan dirinya (muhasabah diri), cara bercakap berhemah, suaranya dijaga, sopan santunnya terpelihara dan susun katanya tidak mengguris sesiapa. Tetapi tegurannya amat dirasa.

Orang berilmu tetapi tidak mengamalkan ilmu serta tidak ada pengalaman, hanya bercakap berdasarkan teori dan apa yang dibelajar, tetapi tidak semestinya betul.

Kadang kala nampak pandai bercakap, tetapi tidak praktikal,kadang kala tersasar dari nilai sopan santun, menunjukkan kebongkakkan dan kesombongan.

Samalah seperti orang yang tidak berilmu dan tidak mengamalkan ilmunya bercakap, tidak berisi dan tidak pun boleh dipercayai, tiada santunnya, tidak berhemah, beremosi dan tidak langsung cuba menjaga perasaan dan hati orang lain.

Itulah antara kategori yang perlu kita perhati. Bagi orang muda yang berdebat ini sama ada Khairy atau Rafizi, cubalah kita nilai sendiri mereka dikategori yang mana.

Anonymous said...

Sdr,

Perbezaan antara orang yang terlalu banyak dan pandai bercakap dengan mereka yang bercakap berdasarkan pengalaman dan ilmu.

Orang bercakap berdasarkan ilmu dan pengalaman adalah lebih besar makna berbanding yang hanya sekadar pandai dan bercakap berapi-api.

Itulah bezanya antara percakapan orang berilmu dan mengamalkan ilmunya; orang yang berilmu, tetapi tidak mengamalkan ilmunya; dan orang yang tidak berilmu.

Orang berilmu dan mengamalkan ilmu apabila dia bercakap dia sebenarnya mengingatkan dirinya (muhasabah diri), cara bercakap berhemah, suaranya dijaga, sopan santunnya terpelihara dan susun katanya tidak mengguris sesiapa. Tetapi tegurannya amat dirasa.

Orang berilmu tetapi tidak mengamalkan ilmu serta tidak ada pengalaman, hanya bercakap berdasarkan teori dan apa yang dibelajar, tetapi tidak semestinya betul.

Kadang kala nampak pandai bercakap, tetapi tidak praktikal,kadang kala tersasar dari nilai sopan santun, menunjukkan kebongkakkan dan kesombongan.

Samalah seperti orang yang tidak berilmu dan tidak mengamalkan ilmunya bercakap, tidak berisi dan tidak pun boleh dipercayai, tiada santunnya, tidak berhemah, beremosi dan tidak langsung cuba menjaga perasaan dan hati orang lain.

Itulah antara kategori yang perlu kita perhati. Bagi orang muda yang berdebat ini sama ada Khairy atau Rafizi, cubalah kita nilai sendiri mereka dikategori yang mana.

monsterball said...

Mahathir dares to debate with Rafizi?
Being questioned by CNN how come his sons are so rich....can borrow RM100 million from banks...no collateral needed...he was so nervous...and his stupid answer was that his sons are smart.
He was so nervous...because his guilty conscience keep pricking him.
Back home...talking to Malaysians..he is always relaxed because he know he can fool some Malaysians...especially the Muslims.
Najib said he will debate a with Anwar if he is found not guilty.
We all know what Najib is.....all talks.....no action.

Anonymous said...

When Tun Mahathir speaks, everyone listens, cos he speaks of wisdom, intelligent, knowledge and experience.

When Rafizi and KJ took and hour to debate, Tun Mahathir can summarised it in one paragraph.

When Anwar speaks, people get entertained cos that is what they liked from an orator but none of the content present any wisdom, intelligent, knowledge nor experience (sic....charlie chaplin video experience yes?). Tagline "conspiracy" and "victim" of political circumstances.

When LKS & Co speaks, totally out of racial and hatred.

When NickJis speaks, what comfort him only. Twist the meaning verses if need be.

See the differences?

Prefer upside down (at least there is progress) to being screwed backwards.

- 1me2

Anonymous said...

Appetiser

While debate between political adversaries make great theatre, more often than not such occasions witness the underlying concerns confronting a nation being obscured by demagoguery, trivialities and a penchant to wring drama from controversy in an effort to score cheap political points. And so the Great Malaysian Debate like all debates was an unmitigated failure simply because it failed to address the key political, economic issues facing Malaysia currently and simply because the speakers lacked the intellectual nous to delineate a coherent and practical vision for the country"s future sustainability as a dynamic , pragmatic and political entity within an unstable and constantly evolving regional geopolitical framework in which the China threat supported by Singpork looms large (refer Danial Pilling’s writeup in the Financial Times).


Hence, we had two political neophytes trying very hard to be erudite and politically savvy but ending up displaying sheer naïveté and abysmal understanding of the issues plaguing Malaysia. All they were good at were setting up stall and in the Great Tradition of Malaysian gutter politics hurl barbs and witticisms to drive home mundane and ultimately worthless points without having the gumption to critique each other’s viewpoints or even objectively or critically review their own standpoints (for instance, Rafizi trundles out the 40% 1500 baseline income but does not care to explain why his beloved PR is bent on removing Affirmative action).

Ultimately, one is left with a sour taste that the debaters were more showmanship obsessed than substance oriented, more image conscious than issue concerned and more partisan first than Malaysian foremost. Equally obvious, were their general inability to articulate clear platforms that will propel the country forward and their trite and tiresome playing to the gallery. And the gallery? Nothing more than a galley of gawkers and wannabes garbed in gawdy outfits out to have a night out and let their hair down to be regaled by their favie impresarios. And to top it off, we had a nincompoop for a moderator and a support cast of who’s who selected from all places, the Malaysian night party circuit whose elitism is only exceeded by their podsnappery.

Warrior 231

Anonymous said...

Main Course

What a debate should do is to have discussions on:

A. reining in the budget deficit by wielding the big axe such as cutting out programs like the NS, freezing operational expenditure at 2010 and downsizing the civil service via corporatization and natural attrition, tying civil service wage structures to performance/productivity gains, streamlining procurement procedures to prevent wastage and leakages, empowering the unlocking of values resident in the government infrastructure bank (buildings, facilities etc)

B.phasing out fuel subsidies altogether and reforming the food subsidy structure to benefit only the needy

C.conceptualising a constitutionally mandated balanced budget provision or at very least, a deficit cap not exceeding 2% of GDP per annum.

D.enhancing competitiveness by reforming the taxation structure, reducing corporate and personal taxes (ideally should be 16 and 18% respectively), introducing regional Hq incentives, reviewing current tax allowances and exemptions to attain optimum outcomes

E.introducing a progressive GST structure, emplacing a wealth tax on the Chingkies. Also a retrospective flat rate tax on undeclared previous income and an exit tax on Malaysians investing permanently abroad or migrating for good.

F.drafting a National Automative Policy that will liberalize the sector and reward efficiency, remove tariffs and promote competition

G.crafting an Oil and Gas industry framework that facilitates the growth of this sector

H.establishing facilitative frameworks and legislation to promote Islamic financing, halal food, cosmetic and pharmaceutical production; biotechnology, green technology etc

I.channeling investments and ideas to enhance the IT infrastructure nationwide by focusing on rolling out a superfast connectivity network, enhancing wireless infrastructure

J.devising a national transport policy that will promote MRT based systems and create urban transport conurbations that provide easy accessibility to natural and human resources as well as the wider export and distribution networks

K.proposing a 5 year 20 billion initiative to upgrade infrastructure on the East Coast and East Malaysia including the construction of highways, 2 deep water ports, a high speed rail network traversing the east coast and linked to the West Coast.

L.charting a Energy Policy Framework that brings into play Nuclear Energy as an option and rescinds onerous packages to the IPPs.

M.designing a National Indigenous Affirmative Action Plan to replace the now defunct NEP

N.Having a Public Housing Board tasked with implementing a National Housing Plan

and many other similar initiatives

Warrior 231

Anonymous said...

sejak bila pulak soal kepimpinan ni diukur daripada kebolehan berdebat??? Mungkin KJ hebat berdebat..tapi apa ladi dengan sayap UMNO yang dia sebagai Ketua??? Adakah kehebatan Al Jub berdebat memastikan dia hebat sebagai PM (kununnya) atau sebagai pemimpin??? Adakah Al jub menjalankan tugasnya dengan sebagai penasihat satu ringgit selangor???
Tapi..selalunya..orang yang banyak dan pandai cakap ni lar yang tak boleh pakai...

Anonymous said...

Dessert

No, we are not interested as to whether Vision 2020 is attainable, which is patently obvious, no thanks to the Abdullah years , and neither are we interested in apportioning blame or scoring points. For mere triumphalism and being erudite neither make for debates nor address concerns. In the end, time constraints may hamper the delineation of all I mentioned above and more but a series of target specific debates on those issues may have helped.

As it is, the outcome is not being debated in blogosphere and in the alternative media as to the intellectuality of content but rather scoped for the shortcomings of both participants. And therein lies the rub, scoring points as to who won and who lost still triumphantly carries the day while the logicality of the exchanges saunter despondently into the night.


In the end we may be tempted to ask what debate at all when :

a) a couple of image and brand savvy political operators suitably garbed and coiffured for the occasion choose to gambol in English 18000km from home to an elite audience of poseurs drunk with reform, democratic pretensions but clueless on how to embed those pretensions in a ethnically, religiously and economically heterogeneous polity

b)substantive discussion of issues were given short shrift at the expense of scoring points and ad hominem attacks were substituted with partisan and pseudo-parochial assaults.

c)two young pups weaned on superficialities and form over substance modalities attempt to simplify the complex and the irreducible to a list of homespun homilies when the moment called for creative, innovative, viable and sustainable solutions.

The debate is redolent of the sorry state of affairs permeating the local civil discourse arena. What it revealed to us ultimately was the suffocating miasma choking Malaysian politics post 2008. For in the trench warfare that erupted since, common sense and decorum abdicated the scene while irrationality and vulgarity filled the void. And having held sway like weeds over once verdant pastures, it would be too much to expect the latter combination to allow intellectuality and logic to flower in their midst. Small wonder then that whatever ideas KJ and RR might have germinated within the sheltered expanses of their minds could barely break the surface and bloom abundantly in the heat of reality. For they had become prisoners of their own partisanship as much as hostages of their own limitations.

Little wonder too that come GE 13, Malaysia is left with a no-choice electoral slate. A slate in which one has to choose between a bunch of hapless douchebags and a coterie of clueless slimepoops. Take your pick as to which is the better option.

Warrior 231

eddy said...

The debaters were civil and were good at articulating their thoughts. I dont know lah bro, does good debaters make good leaders who can lead a country?

The jury is still out, look at Obama, damned good speaker he is but in my mind is damned short on ability to run the USA as President.

Give me Dr. Mahathir any time don't speak much,talk only when necessary and speaks decisively, all action all objective driven. I dont think he is a good debater though.

monsterball said...

KJ has no power whatsoever.
Dressed up like as model...as UMNO b Youth Chief...with only 1/3 supporting him.
Najib will never dare to offend Mahathir...whom hates KJ.
That's how much our Govt. is for the people..and country.
It is always for themselves...toe the line...or you are out...robbers and thieves..code.

gomopapa said...

kj made young people in kelantan voted PAS in droves... go figures...

and i'm with mahathir on this ..kj is bad news for umno but umno people are too stupid to realize that kj is a chamealeon and will do anything to revive his political career... i DON"T TRUST THIS KJ kid...

Anonymous said...

PENYANGAK2 UMNO LAGI BEST...
CAKAP TAK PANDAI
KERJA PUN TAK PANDAI
FRAME ORANG PUN TAK PANDAI SANGAT
MASYUKKK SAJA PANDAI....ITUPUN DAH TAK BERAPA PANDAI DAH
ADA HATI NAK JADI MENTERI PLAK TU

Nasib baik ada KJ
Bukan cakap berapi buta saja
Ada fakta...ada stail
Banyak polisi baru Najib yg dtg daripada idea KJ
Tapi sebab geng2 MAMAK dah cold storage kan dia...

SO SORRY
ITS UMNO'S LOSS
THE MORE THEY CRUCIFY KJ... THE MORE THEY'RE GOING TO ROT

WHAT TO DO...22 YEARS KENA TIPU NGAN MAMAK...SAMPAI SEKARANG TAK PANDAI-PANDAI

monsterball said...

ANON 12.42pm if Anwar talk nonsense...the more so Najib or Mahathir should welcome a debate from Anwar.. and let him talk cock and loose millions of voters supporting him.
Saying Anwar "TALK COCK" as an excuse not to accept a debate as suggested by Old Fart..is full of bulls.

Anonymous said...

kj is good, intelligent and articulate....but he has his time as SIL what has he done....that's enough to tell about KJ....

Anonymous said...

sdr Rocky,

Boleh percayakah Rafizi boleh mengubah tabiat Melayu dan Cina dalam lingkungan 100 hari PR ambil alih.
Aha..Tun Mahathir mengambil masa 2 dekad untuk Melayu berubah dari kepompong kemiskinan sepatutnya dari 2% kepada 30% tetapi cuma 19% yg tercapai, antara lain Premier Lee Kuan Yu cuba mendidik kaum Cina di Singapura untuk mengubah sistem tandas mereka kepada yang lebih sempurna telah mengambil masa hampir sedekad lamanya.

Dalam lingkungan 100 hari untuk mengubah tabiat manusia...incredible!!!

-beeBUZZ

Anonymous said...

That is the problem with Rocky, he cannot differentiate whether what is up and what is down.

I feel that Rocky kinda Desperate lately. Maybe the lawsuit has got something to do with it.

I'ts better for Rocky to CAREFULLY select his blog not because in order to turn it right you must put a little pressure on little Rocky to perform. Well its almost Rocky 5 now its time for the last battle before retirement. So as to Mahathir should sit down and jaga his cucu for the last few years of his life

Anonymous said...

Monsterball,

Soorryyyyy la oldman.

Correct la when you said Anwar dosen't talk COCK!

Actually what we already know about his favourite tag is "CAN I FUCK YOU TODAY?"

He he ....... are you willing to debate about that oldman?

Anonymous said...

Bru, welcome back after that long hiatus. Just wondering what is happening to my comments. Actually there were 4 parts in all but only 3 appeared. Why? Did it contain anything incendiary? Me thinks it dint cos there were no expletives just a list of constitutional, political and electoral proposals for discussion if need be.

With that off, the remnants look disjointed and puts everything in the wrong perspective. My beef is how come three of four linked comments made it through while one dint just like in that Senai thread. Have you hopped for a 10 million grand, bru? Or worse listed on Skillgannon's payroll? Neither sounds a sane choice, if you ask me but then again it's ur life and blog.

Warrior 231
P/s : i have the original retained, just in case.

bru said...

Warrior,

Thank you. For a while I didn't think I could come back!

As for your comments, I am not sure what happened. I checked the mails for your missing comments, thinking that they might have been rerouted to spam or something. Nothing there, at least the last time you complained.

You can always send the missing mail to rockybru@gmail.com, if that's an option I will be happy to cut and paste.

Regards

Anonymous said...

Thank you Bru for your efforts. here is that redacted portion which should have no 3 of the 4 I sent. Anyway, these proposed reforms are for discussion only. Nevertheless, they constitute a vital component of the reforms Malaysia urgently needs to initiate to transform itself.

"Equally there were no noises on Constitutional Reform which should include initiatives to:

entrench Malay Privileges, institutions and political hegemony

embed Islam and emplace provisions to preserve its sanctity.

abolish minority rights to mother-tongue language use in the public sphere and entrench a single language system for all

clarify citizenship rights and introduce mechanisms for its revocation.

introduce local government elections based on the proportional representation system (a prelude to parliamentary electoral reform itself)

implementing some salient and relevant points of the Borneo 20 point agreement

have a bicameral legislature with elections for 75% of senate seats.

re-designate Penang and Malacca as Federal territories.

And there was hardly a whisper of issues that should have been given due weight-age such as:

voter system reform by ditching the stone age toxic indelible ink approach for spsce-age biometrics. Voter registration be optional not mandatory and the introduction of computerized voting procedures be accelerated.

the creation of GRC constituencies for urban areas with semi urban and rural seats maintaining their current status but enjoying certain parliamentary privileges over their GRC counterparts

prohibiting the use of Islam in party policy frameworks and proscribing parties flouting this provision.

abolishing the PPA and the OSA and introducing a more streamlined Publications and Publication Licensing Act and a more pragmatic Information Access Act, which precludes accessibility to only National Security classified documents, and that allows for judicial review

establishing a corruption busting ICAC style framework independent of the executive and forming an Ombudsman office. Alternatively, creating a Special Prosecutor office with Special Investigative Powers.

promulgating a general amnesty for all past (certainly not future!) corrupt practices (irrespective of value) provided 90% restitution is made to the exchequer

substituting the repealed ISA with a more tougher National Security Act designed to address contemporary developments and equipped with longer detention without trial frameworks, the preclusion of judicial review save for technicalities and provisions for electronic surveillance of suspects. Drafting a Civil Disobedience Act that will prohibit demonstrations and empower authorities to act within the full ambit of the law.

reinvigorating the provisions of the Sedition Act and drafting a Libel Act

reforming the education system from pre-school till tertiary level. Reintroducing PPSMI and making English a mandatory pass while BM retains its premier status.

rebranding the AUKU to facilitate mature and critical dissection of issue within campus precintcs without the strangulating baggage of partisan politics suffocating campus communities nationwide.

Warrior 231

Anonymous said...

Letih betul dengan orang tua warrior ni...

nak menannnng aje....tu sifat munafik la tu.

Sounds like "reforming the whole Malaysia"

Reformasi!!!

Anonymous said...

Tun Mahathir is by far the greatest PM for Malaysia.

Till today, nobody wants to challenge him in a debate not even the so called 'mighty opposition.

Tun Mahathir speaks facts and is a person bound to Reality whereas opposition spins that is skewed towards the 'Fantasy world'.

In the end of the day, HYPOCRITES are everywhere. If they are really anti-govt - then opposition should walk instead of driving proton or public transport for that matter.

What the opposition is doing, they are promoting sloth. When there is sloth, Malaysia will never be competitive!

BN is a fantastic and magnificent govt. I am not born rich in fact I endured lots of hardship to get what I want. Govt has provided so many facilities for the rakyat but instead of us going for assistance, we prefer the govt to come knocking on the door - See the mentality of the people - its degrading!

The problem is deeply rooted in all our moral values. One law that is universal "The more you give, the more people wants" - In the end, we are greedy people. You can never satisy our hunger for greed.

If opposition comes to power, it is GUARANTEED that Malaysia will go down the drain!

Thx