Saturday, August 09, 2008

Who stopped the Conversion forum?

Updates, 3 am Sunday 10th Aug 2008: According to blogger A Voice, YB Zulkifli Noordin was picked up by the cops about midnight for his role in the protest against the Bar Council forum. In his last posting on Aug 9 at 9.31 pm, the PKR MP for Kulim- Bandar Baharu says it's time a Muslim lawyer heads the Bar Council. Read here.

Picture from The Star Online
Original post
Bar Council aborts forum after police "advice".
Last night, Syed Hamid told the Bar to be ready to face the consequences of holding the forum. The Bar seems to have heeded the Home Minister's warning (see article below).

According to Malaysiakini, some 300 protesters (1,000 people by 9.30am, according to Bernama) had gathered outside the hall. The TV3 news at noon showed some of the protesters angry faces. Scary.

Are WE prepared for the consequences of such a discourse on Islam? Apparently, we are not.

Should the Bar have gone ahead with the forum in the first place? Should it have held it when we are more ready, like after they've held equally controversial forums on other religions? Or, perhaps, after the Pakatan Rakyat has formed the Government? Would PR be more tolerant of such a discussion on Islam?



General August 09, 2008 11:28 AM
"Conversion To Islam" Forum Ends Early


KUALA LUMPUR, Aug 9 ( Bernama) -- The Bar Council held its controversial "Conversion to Islam" forum today despite opposition from various parties but ended it earlier than scheduled.

Midway through the forum, Bar Council president Datuk S Ambiga took to the stage and told those present that the police had advised them to wrap up the forum by 10am.

The forum at the Bar Council office in Lebuh Pasar Besar started at 9am and was supposed to end at 1.30pm.

At 10am, Ambiga formally announced that the forum was closed.

"We respect everybody's views. We have no quarrel with anyone and I call the forum closed," she said.

Meanwhile, the 100-odd people, including those from Islamic non-governmental organisations who had gathered outside the venue to voice their protest had swollen to 1,000 by 9.30am.

About 80 policemen were deployed to handle security in the area.

-- BERNAMA

161 comments:

monsterball said...

Sometimes....I think the Bar Council do things..at the wrong time and place.
Glad they took heed and close the forum..but this give the impression....that our country is an Islamic State...and not Secular State.
This is a classic example...how sick PAS and UMNO have made some Muslims.. behaving..now.
But the fact lies...vast majority Malaysians Muslims...do not behave like fanatics....no matter how much PAS and UMNO want to stuffs these.....in their politics.
Just look at our neighboring countries ...parading in the Olympic games.
So many were far behind us..30 years ago...now so far ahead of us.
That to me...is the living proof of UMNO's massive mismanagements and corruptions....to put us....so far behind.
But Islamic fanatics..love to live in a not progressive country.
UMNO and PAS..must be very proud.

Muslim convert said...

Msia still lacks the openess in such a discussion... Muslim community are too sensitive when their religion is talked about... similar to the special rights.. I truly dont know what is the fear of being able to face the truth?

Our Muslim politicians themselves are 1 heck of a useless bunch.. Just look at them being so-called role models of the Islam religion..

Problem is, other religions can be criticized and what not but when it comes to Islam, all hell will break loose. Where is the logic my fellow brothers??

Anonymous said...

Another day in bolehland. Thought police have put enough roadblocks still got protest or are they going to put more.

Guess overtime for PDRM will be quite high this month.

God Save the people from the wolves

Pa'chik said...

nampak cam sekarang ni ramai betul nak cetuskan huru hara...

mula dari isu deb,
kemudian ketuanan melayu,
kemudian naikkan harga minyak tinggi melampau supaya orang protes
kemudian tangkap nuar berahim...

macam ada yang nak amik kesempatan guna ordinan darurat je... senang nak tangkap orang...

why so serius said...

rocky,

saya melihat situasi BAR Council ini dari sudut dimana AMBIGA sendiri sudah melampaui batas. Saya percaya dengan ilmu pengetahuan dan pendidikan yang beliau ada di dalam jurusan undang-undang, beliau telah menggunakan kesempatan ini untuk menekan kerajaan menyemak semula artikel 121. Jika tidak, mengapa beliau berkeras mahu adakan forum seumpama?

Bagi saya AMBIGA sudah melampaui batas. Beliau yakin mendapat sokongan padu dari Perdana Menteri dan Menantu selepas stunt yang dilakukan dalam kes Salleh Abas dan sekarang beliau merasakan diri invincible dalam undang-undang dan pendapat umum.

Saya menasihatkan Bar Council dan AMBIGA untuk menubuhkan sebuah parti politik sendiri dan beliau boleh berbuat sesuka hati untuk campur tangan dalam isu politik dan perkauman di Malaysia. Jangan menyorok disebalik hak asasi manusia dan undang-undang untuk kepentingan peribadi.

AMBIGA ini sudah melampau dan dia perlu di ajar!

Anonymous said...

Bar council, go ahead, hold more public forum, face whatever the outcome like a man, bring 'em on.

GWB

Anonymous said...

The problem lies not in the religion. But all those hypocrites behind the veil.
malsia1206

Anonymous said...

Pak Rocky,
I believe that race and religion do not matter as we can make friends with anyone we want.But I think that we should not make fun of other religions or crack jokes about it Via forums or dialogs.Doing this to an extend can cause racial riots.I find that starting a racial riot is of no use as many lives will be lost or at risk. So I hope that keturunan Cina, India, Melayu will live in peace and harmony as Malaysian.
-makangaji.

Anonymous said...

Ambiga is stupid.

Why just focus on Islam?

Lagi sekali buat la "Conversion" meaning all religions.

But something is very fishy here. It looks like either Ambiga is really stupid or she is being paid by someone to provoke Malays for the benefits of certain groups who are really in trouble. For example, Pak Lah maybe?

Say Malays fight back big time because of those 2 forums..Malays will look like they need to unite. Malays go back to UMNO? Hmmm.

By the, why there are less UMNO people there? Hmmm. I smell rats!

Nan-patisan.

Anonymous said...

Typo.
Nan-patisan = Non-partisan.


Non-partisan

Bentoh said...

Why should Bar council not go ahead? The forum is a discussion about Law... not Islam...

and Bar council is a body which look after the judiciary in Malaysia...

Bunnies said...

In the first place, what Bar Council wanted to do was not to question the rights of Islam but rather the whole works of people who convert. Admit it, there are scumbs out there who convert to get away with "murder" and the victims, their non-muslim spouse and children are in a big big time dilemma. Is that right? Has the relevant courts done the right thing to protect these victims? So, what Bar Council did was to discuss about such distressing situation and see if there is a solution where the victims are not left to pick up the pieces on their own. So, what is wrong with that?

The actions of these so called protestors are shameful and barbaric!! These shameful barbarians have no blinking idea that their actions are a reflection of their religion. Did they truly understand what Bar Council was trying to do? Did these shameful barbarians have any idea of the sufferings of victim of spouse who convert just to get away with "murder"? It seems to me that these so call loyal muslims are jittery and simply have no faith in their own teaching! If this is what Islam is all about, I think it is very very scary!

Yes, I do understand the need to defend one's religion but it shouldnt have be to the extend of violence for something so normal like a forum. Everyone of us who claim to be of a certain religion have to always remember that we are the ambassador of the GOD we believe in. So, what does such barbaric action say?? You tell me!

Matlock said...

BC chickened out?! Hahaha what kind of bleeding lawyers are you, lah?!!

Anonymous said...

Empty vessels make most noise. I am ashamed my fellow Muslims did not have enough balls to take on this challenge and promote the true Islam but continue to shower the others with more fear that we're all religious fanatics.

Want to sit and talk.. bring it on... we have nothing to hide and all to share.


Fruit not Nut...

Terong said...

[QUOTE}Posted by Anonymous or GWB@8.43pm said...

Bar council, go ahead, hold more public forum, face whatever the outcome like a man, bring 'em on.

GWB

8:43 PM [UNQUOTE}

Setakat nak galakkan Bar Council menjalankan 'public forum' tetapi sinick GWB berselindong disebalik ANONYMOUS menandakan anda dayus atau 'coward' macam kata pepatah: baling batu sembunyi tangan. si GWB, anda adalah pengecut tetapi suka menyakitkan hati insan lain. Show yourself if you're not pondan!

lebih percaya ular said...

yehaa, hooray,yu huuu...

every body claps your hand three time for ambiga

citation :
For her bravery and fight for injustice.

should give her `peace nobel' award aka `mahatma gandhi' or `lee kuan yew' trophy.

also an award to zahid ibrahim for his `elegance silence'.

Question :
When both of you mau kahwin?

every body claps your hand!
(macam direct selling)

Chow Kit Cowboy said...

"Who stopped the conversion forum"?

Remember the recent hit song "Who let the dogs out"?

dark knight said...

Ramai PKR dan PAS yang pergi protest tersebut. Ingatkan PKR dan PAS lebih terbuka untuk discuss isu agama? Kalau tak, macam mana PR nak capai kata sepakat jika mereka ingin menjadi kerajaan memerintah?

Pasquale said...

Rocky!
Might as well say it now, or forever hold my piece (not peace okay..!)
Originally this is and still is a Malay country with Malay rules and Malay laws, Malay convention etc. When non-Malays decided to adopt Persekutuan Tanah Melayu as theirs they have that tacit understanding of accepting all things Malay! If they think they are going to question all that they have agreed upon and think Malay leadership today is being compromised and can be taken advantage of they have to think again! Malays are ready to go to all extent to protect their rights including protecting their religion,let us not forget this before it is too late. Call me a racist for all I care for I am a Malay and this is my country, and I will die for Malaysia!

Citra said...

I bet 3/4 of those protesting didnt know what the forum was about. If these people were well educated, they could have seen that the forum would benifit the muslims as well. It is a malaysian issue not just muslims or non-muslim. If we are not ready now to talk openly on these issues then we would never be ready. In the end there will be one group upholding the religion and the other upholding the constitution.

sayadahbosan said...

The learned lawyers have shown their true colours a long time ago to set the ball rolling. All we have to do now is to "tengok siapa yang kena.."

Dunia dah maju, zaman dah berubah.

Politicians and lawyers are both from the same womb. They lie and lie to fulfill their own morbid lust and desires.

monsterball said...

Who does not want to live in good old Malaysia...free and easy...not rushing like mad...to make a living?
I used to pity Honkies...always rushing here and there ...to survive...and return home...feeling so lucky.
But the real truth....we need to slow down..first 25 years..to let Muslims catch up with Chinese.
Mahathir is so smart. He could have been the greatest PM ..if only he focus on educations and Malaysians attitudes...to change Malaysians..for the better.
No ...he studied the races weaknesses.... took advantage of all...to make himself a dictator be downright arrogant...to do as he liked..with no apology ...as if he owns the country.
That took 22 years...making Malaysia..behind others....no progress. UMNO love it....and putout a Spaceman...to confuse us.
Now look at all the countries ... around us..all are progressing to be at par with Malaysia...and some more advanced..when they were far behind us....some 30 years ago.
So..who does not want to live like good old days?
So UMNO tells us...we are very progressive. Look Spaceman ..next one...on the moon.
Do you believe in their lies...we are that progressive?
Actually....UNNO is trying hard to confuse Malays...a real
"two face" crook in Malaysia..like we saw in 'Black Knight" movie.

Anonymous said...

1. so easy to lump everything and put the blame on umno, pas, or the malays

2. hunting season on the malays--- ever since 0308

3. looks like when s*** hits the fan only the malays got dirtied.

4. will PR do better job? Time will tell

tombak

suaramalaysia said...

Malaysians today observed how a group of islamic thugs hijacked and forced a peaceful forum on Islamic conversion to end abruptly.

This dastardly act was a pernicious act abbeted by the Malaysian police who refused to act as impartial representatives of the law, but rather allowed these jihad thugs a free reign to intimidate and threathen violence against unarmed Malaysian civilians.

This is an interesting spectacle to record in comparison to how the police have brutally acted against non-muslim or non-Barisan peaceful gatherings in the country.

It confirms what so many Malaysians beleive, in that the police force takes its orders soley from the Barisan and often uses its power to inflict physical and physcological harm, like it did against Cheras residents when they excercised their rights against unjust practices and abuse of the authorities.

As the PKR Professor of Islam, forum attendant commented on television, these thugs give Islam a bad name.

The silent majority and thinking muslims must speak out against such violations because the more non-Muslim Malaysians are threathened or deprived against speaking out against the subtle Islamisation and forced conversions and other serious encroachments or revisions - the greater the polarisation.

Stand up against these jihad bullies now and excercise your voice by standing firm against the schemes of the Barisan regime.

Nostradamus said...

Q14. Freedom of religions and beliefs is a right of all Malaysians. (True or False)
Kebebasan ugama dan kepercayaan adalah hak semua rakyat Malaysia (Betul atau Salah)

Q15. Liberty is a right of all Malaysians. (True or False)
Kebebasan diri adalah hak semua rakyat Malaysia. (Betul atau Salah)

Q16. All Malaysians and the world can be converted to a single culture, religion, race in future. (Fact or Fiction)
Semua rakyat Malaysia dan sedunia boleh diubahkan kepada suatu kebudayaan, ugama dan bangsa pada masa hadapan. (Fakta atau Rekaan)

Q43. Divide and rule exists in all politics and religion. (Fact or Fiction)
Memecah belah dan memerintah terdapat di semua fahaman politik dan ugama. (Fakta atau Rekaan)

Q48. Freedom can only exist in the mind, not in real life. (True or False)
Kebebasan Cuma didapati dalam minda, tidak di dunia nyata. (Betul atau Salah)

Q49. Race and Religious supremacy are preached by satans. (True or False)
Ketuanan bangsa dan ugama adalah dikutbah oleh syaitan. (Betul atau Salah)

Q50. Malaysian politicians are typical Jeyklls and Hydes. (True or False)
Ahli politik Malaysia melambangkan personality Jeyklls dan Hydes. (Betul atau Salah)

Answers at http://patek1472.wordpress.com
Jawapan di http://patek1472.wordpress.com

Anonymous said...

Wait for PR, weren't it the representative of PAS and PKR outside the Bar Council today? It doesn't matter whose in power, Rocky...

Anonymous said...

I just wonder what is so sensitive about this forum.Demolish temple is more sensitive right????Don't you think so.....Bar council should do this forum instead to protect the freedom of religion in Malaysia.

A KADIR JASIN said...

Sdr RockyBru,

Do we blame the Bar Council entirely?

I think the Bar is merely reacting (and testing) the so-called openess of the Abdullah Government.

The Bar members see the split in the government. Zaid Ibrahim who feted and befriended them and Syed Hamid who is concerned about law and order.

Zaid and Syed Hamid are Abdullah's right hand men.They are both lawyers but are on opposite poles.

Zaid prides himself as a liberal. He has little or no political affiliation.

Clearly, since being made a senator and minister he has made used of the Bar Council to curry favour with Abdullah and the liberals on the 4th Floor.

Still, it's wise for the Bar Council to be absolutely thoughtful and considerate in furthering its cause.

Thank you.

siamangagap said...

Islam has been rediculed for so long. Anything about Islam is bad. Don't see any öther religions been so much targeted and make a mockery by others. Muslims have been pushed to the corner. So the reaction from the Muslims is obvious. So would you complain if the Muslims hold a forum on "Stop Building Illegal Hindu Temples", "Chinese Should Rear Pigs For Their Own Consumption Only", "Christians Should Stop Using Allah In Bibles", etc.???? Then we can see who is more tolerant or has an open mind!

Flowing Stream said...

As a non-muslim, I do not understand what is the commotion about the discussion on conversion. This seemed like the middle-age witch-hunt where any talk of converting out of Christianity are met with unruly riots and witch-burning. Islam is one of the great religions, why do its followers display such immature lack of self-confidence? Christianity and Buddhism do not care about these issues, why?

Joseph said...

kpd saudara not so serius:

kalau tiada forum yang pernah sentuh tentang isu-isu yang melibatkan penceraian keluarga & perampasan mayat oleh Jabatan Agama, mana lagi rakyat bukan muslim di negara ini yang nak luahkan perasaan tertindas & kecewa di tanah air mereka sendiri?

Dah banyak kali kita melihat betapa pedih & sedih ahli keluarga bukan muslim bila diganggu & didesak oleh Jabatan Agama dalam saat-saat kesedihan mereka.

Kenapa ini terjadi? Sebab pemisahan hak mahkamah sivil & mahkamah syariah, sebab hanya ada Jabatan AgamaIslam tapi tiada Jabatan Agama Bukan Islam.

Apa baiknya Jabatan Agama & para muslim di negara ini dengan mengabaikan perasaan & hak rakyat bukan muslim? Sebagai kaum majoriti & agama terbesar (bahkan di dunia ini), bukankah sepatutnya ko orang kena jaga minoriti? Kenapa tak boleh dialog, tak boleh berbincang?

Kenkawan bukan islam ada perasaan juga. Sila prihatin sikit.

Nadia Razak said...

Bar Council under Ambiga have truly lost it!!! Whilst we need to address issues and all kinds i must add, society must be mature and able to face this. Forcing issues cannot and will not resolve. Today saw it. History of various civilizations have proven this...do we not learn?

They need to throw her (ambiga) out...she is not a conciliatory figure but a dividing one. Malaysians are fast losing it on what it takes to be a leader.

Even Lawyers are going through dumbing effect in Malaysia claiming that they are fighting the rights of many when in fact they are inflating their own egos under the newly allowed press freedom which they criticize anyway!!!!

Wake up la guys to the coffee....

between the lines said...

I think you should answer that question yourself. And why should you ask what a PR govt will do when PR MPs were the only ones who aborted it? Sheesh! This was a miscarriage boy. Try it again.

Anonymous said...

The answer is short and simple.

Yes, PAS and PKR would be better. They dont promise you Utopia but you will definitely still get more than what you got with BeeEnd govt.

With the BeeEnd govt, what happened today would still have happened.

You are writing nonsense, are you saying with Pakatan Govt, the forum this morning would have been stopped but under BeeEnd govt, it would have been allowed?

Both also stopped! So status quo.

But Pakatan in other areas, promise so much, help for all races, poor and in need instead of NEP for the crony rich.

Judiciary revamp!!!

Police reva,p!!!

so , look beyond the small things!!!!

sunwayopal

Anonymous said...

Muslim convert said...

"Problem is, other religions can be criticized and what not but when it comes to Islam, all hell will break loose. Where is the logic my fellow brothers??"

Ermmm...my memory fails me. When did Muslims in Malaysia criticize another religion?

SerialJoe

dannalli said...

They are not disputing Article 121 (1A) nor questioning Islam and its status as laid down in the Federal Constitution but was to address the issue of conflicts of laws facing families caught between separate the jurisdictions of the Civil and Syariah Courts.

I am being born Muslim ... still feel it for those families. Give them space and listen to them.

BUKAN ISLAM CARD CARRIER said...

I sincerely hope the next time the Jabatan Agama Islam seizes a non-Muslim corpse, or encourages a new convert to convert minor children without their spouses' consent, there will be a similar and hopefully just as threatening, just as huru-hara demonstration.

JANGAN CABAR BUKAN-ISLAM! NAHAS ENGKAU!

Anonymous said...

Was anything seditious uttered by protesters? Are the authorities going to act? Or is our racial and religious tolerances dissipating with all these radicals being so vocal?

So much for insecure people.

Tired.

Satria Asia said...

People like Syed Hamid and Najib shouldn't have said what they said. They should have not given encouragement to Muslim NGOs to protest.

It's sad to see the blinkered views and the siege mentality displayed by these NGOs.

The issue must be brought to the forefront and not kept under wraps, because you don't want feelings to boil over.

The non Muslims I believe want answers. What Zulkfli Noordin (PKR_Kulim Bandar Baharu) is quite unsatisfactory.

Anonymous said...

Can anyone tell whether the agenda of this forum really try to tarnish image of Islam?
No sane mind in any Malaysian, regardless of which belief and faith, will have thought of offending any other religious, particularly Islam.

Very diappointed with the bahaviour of PKR's MP Bdr Baru Kulim and group of protesters, no doubt I respect their view of sensitivity in this case but was he ever think and ponder whether such forum really challenge status of Islam in the country. Pls behave like an adult!
not like a thug, cursing "babi" and other vulgar words. I don't think such behavior is allow in Islam teaching too. If he or any
those muslims protester think such forum is detrimental to their faith. Pls join the forum to find out instead of base on hearsay and act irrationally. Issue has been overblown. Some even go to the extent and say such forum held becos Malays are weak now after GE 308. Other race try to take advantage. Try to play up racist sentiment.

I support such forum held by Bar Council, but don't quite agree with their approach. They should engage more rational mind muslims to participate too. Hence, no one will have doubt what is the actual motive of this forum.

Am doubt whether protest voice created by this protesters are purely from religious viewpoint
or actually politic one

- jogjar -

Anonymous said...

Though it was emphasised that the forum was in no way undermining the position of Islam as a principal religion in this country, but to discuss issues pertaining to a better outlook going forward for society at large. Yet, sadly there were misunderstandings and protests by varied quarters leading to its early closure.
Finding solutions to pressing problems facing the nation's peoples require foresight and gumption hence diplomatic approaches is encouraged to ensure that delicate issues are ironed well so as to not leave creases for the future generations to trouble over.
However, continued setbacks will only ensure prolonged failure to identify areas where legislations need to be put in place to justify the parlimentary democracy process.
-Malaysian Socrates-

wanderer said...

It is very sad to allow 'samsengs' rule the day. We believe, we are a matured and democratic nation, far from it...after what we have witnessed, the unruly behavior at the Bar Council Forum. These ignorant protesters are the 'pretenders' of islam...a religion that seeks the truth. Why are they so afraid to have a discussion on an issue that may bring better understanding and the betterment of Islam. These protesters got it all wrong, they need to grow up.

Anonymous said...

I dunno what's so sensitive abt the forum? In the west, the muslims demand that they talk to christians...no problem, they talk openly

Kat sini,baru je nak buat forum,tu pun dah kecoh...sampai bile pun,mcm maner nak solve problem?

Why nak pertahan malaysia for malays? Why not malaysia for everyone? this is the mentality of malays skarang...yg bangga sangat yg melayu punya tanah kenapa? bukan kah org asli yg mula2x menduduki tanah ni..then,skarang ni,maner org asli pergi? terpinggir...macam dia org pulak org asing kat tanah ni...and we have the nerve to call it tanah melayu...shouldn't it be tanah org asli?

malu betul jadi melayu ni

nana

A Voice said...

Rocky

I think I am far minded but of late, I am slowly losing my cool as the limit is being pushed further.

In my posting No to Civil and Liberal Hipocrasy in All Blogs!, I expressed my increasing scepticism to the much perceived openness, and democratic practise of certain civil, liberal and opposition groups.

I wrote today in Bakaq, Blogger Solidarity, Bar Council and the Sedition Act the following:


In the application of the Sedition Act, there should be a priority on genuine and serious offenders, partuclarly those actively instigating the public and causing public unrest by irresponsible questioning of our Constitution and causing the public to lose confidence on the various institutions of this country.

The action has to be significant with far reaching impact on society and the future of the nation. Thus I am of the opinion that Bakaq's alleged offense does not have far reaching impact.

Bar Council's forum to question the Article 121 of the Constitution today is a fine example of such action that has far reaching impact on society. It questions the foundation of this country and serves to instigate inter-religion tension. Thus, I support the protestors demanding Bar Council to end the Forum. If police were to apply Sedition act on the organisers, they have my support.

As one who attended Bar Council's forum on Social Contract, I did not find the Bar Council as sincere in seeking for meaningful and peaceful resolution to societal issues.

The manner the forum panelist were lined up have questionable intentions. All have like minded opinions, thus indicating the Forum serves to reinforce or even propagate their preconceived ideas of law, justice and fairness to the uninformed.

While Ambiga claim that the "Ibrahim Ali"s should come to listen to the forum to hear their point of views, the manner the organisation she led organised the forum to be biasly swayed one way puts to question her sincerity in seeking a resolution to societal problem.

Her choice of panelists like Farish Nor and Dr Kua Kia Soong seek to be rude, obnoxious and outright racist. All but Tommy Thomas were misinforming and deceiving the audience with their misrepresentation of historical fact and analysis.

Ambiga is in no position to preach.

She exposed her inconsistency in the ex-gratia payment to Tun Salleh and other judges. Unlike Karpal Singh that showed some objectivity, she was silence on Justice Ian Chin's remarks which deserve a Tribunal. Matthias Chang exposed her collaboration to use a Foreign Embassy to lobby for certain judges. Her uncle, Judge Gopal Sri Ram extensively lobbied for his big jump from a lawyer to the position of High Court Judge.

Consistent with my past postings, lawyers, as adversarial natured professionals have no business to spearhead to socio-political changes. They are generally hired spokesmen speaking for their paymaster. Thus, can we expect them to be genuine and sincere to bridge the opinion gap?

My answer is an emphatic, No! May I jestfully suggest to "Hang them Bar Council Committee Members!" Seriously, it is time Bar Council to have a taste of the Sedition Act to remind them to be more responsible, exercise more caution and have sensitivity to society in their actions.

The last sentence maybe unbecoming but I can't help it to feel Bar Council's forum is part of an insidious attempt to rubbish Islam. It has similarity to a local Christian missionary organisation strategy to scare people of Islam. Does it show that Bar Council took side???!!!

Bawal said...

Rocky,

I believe the Bar Council has gone overboard in trying to champion the peoples "rights". I believe they are out of context in actually wanting to discuss about Islam especially those people(lawyers) are not recognised as the learnt scholar in Islam.

They are not sensitive to the issue and should respect the law of the land where those issues concerning Islam and Muslim is in the jurisdiction of Syariah Court.

I wonder why and how the supposedly learnt lawyers are ignorant or they just blatant arrogant with thinking that they are one class above everyone else.

Anonymous said...

KHOJA NADIM

I salute all Muslim groups who have stood as one in this instance.

I am with Pasquale on this and I call upon all Malays and Muslims in this country not to abdicate their unique responsibility to determine Malaysia's destiny with our historically inherited consent.

This is not one country, anybody, group, country or power, under any guise can do what they like if we passionately disagree.

A Voice said...

Looks like police favoured Bar Council instead.

I received SMS to say that YB Zulkifli Nordin that particilated in the morning rally was detaiend 15 minites ago.

Hooray for Zaid Ibrahim!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

The Bar Councils' effort must be commended. In fact I think Malaysians are ready for such forum but not our politicians. To them racial and religious difference is the ultimate weapon to instill fear in Malays or Muslims. I find this shallow inferiority attitude is very unbecoming of them.
But on the other hand Bar Council could have been a bit more careful in their approach. They could have approached respected religious leaders like Nik Aziz to explain their positions and intentions of having such forums. Having earned their trust and consent would have made this effort a success.

Suresh

Anonymous said...

A closed mind is a dead mind. It will never learn and find the truth. Remember years ago they said that the Sun goes round the earth and to discuss that is a sin? Discussion open minds and helps one to understand another's view point.

Open Minded.

tzarina said...

Do any of those morons who protested even know what went on during the Shamala/Subashini and the rest of the conversion affected cases?

Rocky, I expected better from you. Simplifying this forum as Islam vs non-Islam is incorrect. This was a forum established by lawyers, on LEGAL issues pertaining to the ambiguities in our justice system, which is historically proven to be biased against the family of the Muslim converts.

If you are advocating that non-Muslims should just shut their trap by not discussing LEGAL issues in cases where their families are turned upside down by one member who converts, which leaves the family with no recourse to a legal system, you and your friends who protest have no more grounds to even talk about JUSTICE in Malaysia.

Read about injustice here. Then think about whether the forum is a requirement or not for our country, and your fellow Malaysians.

Anonymous said...

BUKAN ISLAM CARD CARRIER said...

I sincerely hope the next time the Jabatan Agama Islam seizes a non-Muslim corpse, or encourages a new convert to convert minor children without their spouses' consent, there will be a similar and hopefully just as threatening, just as huru-hara demonstration.

JANGAN CABAR BUKAN-ISLAM! NAHAS ENGKAU!

Hahahahaha....rolling over laughing....

SerialJoe

PUNITHAN SHAN said...

PRESS STATEMENT
NATIONAL MIC YOUTH COORDINATOR
T.MOHAN

THE MIC YOUTH STRONGLY CONDEMNS THE TACTICS OF IRRESPONSIBLE GROUPS IN DISRUPTING THE BAR COUNCIL FORUM ON CONVERSION TO ISLAM IN KUALA LUMPUR TODAY.
THEIR ACTIONS IS A STEP BACKWARD TOWARDS THE UNITY AND RELIGIOUS HARMONY AMONGST THE VARIOUS RACES IN MALAYSIA ENVISIONED UNDER VISION 2020.
WE ARE DISAPPOINTED WITH THE GROUPS FOR FAILING TO ALLOW THE DISCUSSION OF THE ISSUES OF INTER-FAITH IN A MATURE AND RESPONSIBLE MANNER.
THE BAR COUNCIL HAS REITERATED THAT THE FORUM ON RELIGIOUS CONVERSION WAS NOT TO QUESTION THE PROVISIONS OF ARTICLE 121 (A)
OF THE CONSTITUTION BUT TO ADDRESS THE CONFLICTS OF LAWS FACING FAMILIES CAUGHT BETWEEN THE SEPARATE JURISDICTIONS OF CIVIL AND SYARIAH LAWS.
THE MIC YOUTH REALISE THE NECESSITY OF THE ABOVE FORUM AS IT WILL CLARIFY CONFUSION OF THE CONCERNED GROUP AND WILL BE A BASE FOR GUIDELINE FOR THOSE WHO ARE LOOKING TO CONVERT TO THEIR ORIGINAL RELIGION DUE TO THEIR PERSONAL JUDGEMENT.
WE BELIEVE OPEN DISCUSSIONS AND DIALOGUES ON THE PROBLEMS ARISING OUT OF THE SYARIAH AND CIVIL COURTS SEPARATE JURISDICTIONS AND OTHER ISSUES TO RELIGIOUS CONVERSIONS ARE IMPERATIVE TO FIND SOLUTIONS.
THERE ARE SO MANY CASES WHERE INDIVIDUALS AND FAMILIES WERE AFFECTED BECAUSE OF THE CONVERSION IN AND OUT OF ISLAM. MANY WHO HAD CONVERTED WERE ALSO IN A DILEMMA AS THEY WERE UNABLE TO REVERT TO THEIR FORMER RELIGION.
WE STRONGLY BELIEVE THESE GROUPS SHOULD HAVE USED THE FORUM TO COME AND GIVE THEIR VIEWS INSTEAD OF ACTING HIGH-HANDEDLY AND FORCING THE CANCELLATION OF THE FORUM.
WE ARE DISAPPOINTED THAT THE POLICE HAD ALSO FAILED TO TAKE ACTION AGAINST THESE GROUPS FOR STAGING DEMONSTRATIONS AND HAD INSTEAD ASKED BAR COUNCIL TO CANCEL THE FORUM.
THE MIC YOUTH IS ALSO CONCERNED WITH THE STATEMENTS MADE BY CERTAIN LEADERS WHO HAD STRONGLY OPPOSED THE FORUM AS IT HAS CAUSED RESENTMENT AMONGST THE NON MUSLIMS
THEY SEEM TO HAVE IGNORED THE FACT THAT THE BAR COUNCIL HAS ALREADY CLARIFIED THAT THE FORUM WAS TO ADDRESS THE CONFLICTS OF LAW.
THEY SHOULD HAVE COME OUT WITH THEIR PROPOSALS IN ADDRESSING THE ISSUE OF NON-MUSLIM HUSBANDS WHO ABANDON THEIR SPOUSES AND THEIR FAMILIES AND CONVERT INTO ISLAM RATHER THAN TO STOP A LEGITIMATE FORUM.
THE MIC YOUTH ALSO CALL ON HINDRAF TO PUBLICLY STATE THEIR STAND AS THE GROUP WHO OPPOSED THE FORUM WAS LED BY A PARTI KEADILAI RAKYAT MP. IS THIS WHAT HINDRAF GETS FOR SUPPORTING PKR IN THE GENERAL ELECTION?

ENDS

amoker said...

When the chinese, India, Java, Minang, Iban etc. decided to form Malaysia, we are Malaysians and not Malay.

I was disappointed with what happened today, even more with PKR and PAS.

Anyway, i got thinking and contrasted that out with the attack on Christianity by the Da Vinci code phenomena. And i remember reading an email written in BM with the intention of teaching its reader to use the book to challenge christians.( for those who think that Muslims are 100% above board, here is an example) Anyway, my reflection is to the Malaysian Christian leaders who ask us to be calm and came out with forums and Q&A sessions. In these, we learn about the book, the author, the truth, half truths and creative stretches, the backup from secular findings, church history and theological explaination. I think it was an immensely mature way of handling challenges by educating and role modeling. There is no protest, book burning and name callings. Soon, the phase passed over and everybody is wiser, even those friends who tried to make the mountain out of molehill.

If Muslims felt that they have been incorrectly attacked, so does other religions. In my religion, Christ ask us to be forgiving to the extend of giving the other cheek. Christians are not perfect as we are only human. I think that is the difference. Please be more confident in your religion and mature in your response. THanks

Bung Karno said...

Tindakan senghaja mempersenda dan menguji ketahanan orang Melayu dan Islam.

Baru menang sikit, belum memerintah negara, DAP dan HINDRAF sudah menunjukkan sikap mereka yang ingin menukar segala yang diperuntukan kepada Melayu dalam Perlembagan. Mereka mendapat angin baru kerana sokongan daripada orang Melayu dalam PKR. Golongan berpengaruh dalam Bar Council adalah juga penyokong HINDRAF,DAP dan PKR.

Isu ini adalah peringatan bahawa jika DAP dapat memerintah negara bersama PKR, agama Islam, Raja-raja Melayu dan orang Melayu akan hilang segalanya.

teohjitkhiam said...

"Who stopped the Conversion forum?"

Bro Rocky. Lemme answer that one.

UMNO Sock Puppets i.e. GPMS and PEKIDA.

Where else on Earth can you hear the words SERBU and GEMPUR being used except by UMNO? Great work, UMNO. No wonder you guys are still in power.

Anonymous said...

It has nothing to do with Government or BN this time.
There were plentiful PR protesters from both PAS and PKR present.
UMNO too was there in protests.
It was clear issue that seemed to have touched religion and upset Muslim masses.

Alex said...

"Should it have held it when we are more ready, like after they've held equally controversial forums on other religions?"
Like what Rocky? What other controversial forums on other religions are you talking about? Mind to share with us some ideas or topics?

All the forum was asking was the protection of non-Muslim fathers, wives, sons, daughters when the Islamic religious authorities start to creep into their life. Take the girl and her mother who lost all their property and the house they lived under for 30 years because her father married a Muslim and converted. After he died, the property which was given to the wife after a divorce settlement was forcibly taken from them by the religious authorities. Is this what you call justice? This has nothing to do with politics but a wrong that was committed against an innocent girl and her mother. And if you are too blind to see that then I'm sorry because whatever I say will not change your mind. And whatever you say have no effect on mine either.

If you demand respect then you had better prove that you are worthy of respect. Is it no wonder that none is forthcoming for your religion? This is not a phenomenon unique to Malaysia but throughout the whole world. This is not an irrational hatred of Islam because we have been brainwashed by Jews and Yanks. This is what we have experienced ourselves as a collective unit at the hands of your so-called justice. Your so-called justice is not worth much more than the Iraqis so-called made in USA democracy.

You see, you have more in common with America than you think. Both have global imperial ambitions, domineering, prone to loutish behavior when things don't go their way, war-mongering, and thriving on instability. Two sides of the same coin.

Alex said...

Pasquale, you may be ready to die for Malaysia but I think you are making a big mistake. You see, you are dying for the wrong country. You should be dying for Tanah Melayu not Malaysia because Malaysia is made up of 40% non-Malays. Malaysia is also made up of Sabah (originally 60% Christian and animist until Project IC changed that) and Sarawak (75% non-Malays).

Just worried that you would have died in vain for the wrong country.

Anonymous said...

If Ambiga is being posed with a death threat, that will be more believable than the other chap who ran to the turkish embassy....

ALS

Anonymous said...

Pasquale,

All I have to say is please do not insult the Malay's nenek moyang ... because they embrace the religion of Buddhism, Animist and Hinduism before Islamisation becomes the Malay's prefered religion.

If you forgot your sejarah ... please go back to school and study them.

Sejarah Malaysia said...

Pasquale,

All I have to say to you is please do not insult the people that lived here long time ago and one of them may be your nenek moyang. Before Islamisation, all of them are either a Buddhist, Hindu or an Animist.

If you forget your Sejarah ... please go back to school and read them again.

Anak said...

I am not a Muslim so to the Bar Council I say..why sibuk-sibuk to hold the forum openly. Hold it in a close enviroment oklah. Then why the need to tell the press or the world about the forum? Keep it among yourselves cukuplah. If you don't know about Islam and syariah law, buy a book or two then discuss lah among yourselves. Why the need to kepoh-kepoh. Then little by little explainlah to relative and non-Muslim friends slowly slowly lah. So that all the non-Muslims understand more about Islam and Syariah law. If they like Islam, let them convertlah. Why bother. But don't convert diam-diam lah. Divide the harta sepencarian first lah then masuk Islam lah. Be gentle lah. Ask your spouse to make a will lah in case that when he or she masuk Islam senyap-senyap, jabatan agama doesn't take your wealth or harta sepencarian. If your spouse die don't rebut rebut the bodylah. Let the Jabatan Agama take it for burial..free what. Just attend the funeral to show last respect lah.
Don't bother the Muslims. Don't talk sensitive things related to them. Sometime you mean good, some people will say it bad. Fikir-fikirlah. Why bother...we need a peaceful atmostsphere at the moment to think about how to survive the economic recession. So jangan gaduh-gaduh lah. Why have you not learn any lesson. Thou shall not talk about the Malays and Islam. Remember the Ketuanan Melayu and Islam as agama rasmi as stated in the constitution. Draw a line of what you can or cannot do. We are just the minority in this country. Just jaga our own kain. Keep the beautiful things in our mind and heart.

To the Malays and Muslims...I no longer know what to say to you guys. Takut nak kata apa-apa. No point to say something. No matter what, you will always be right. Never been wrong. Give up and fed up of saying anything. Many of the non-Muslims feel the same I guess. Baik dok diam as long as you are happy dibuai mimpi.

Anak said...

I am not a Muslim so to the Bar Council I say..why sibuk-sibuk to hold the forum openly. Hold it in a close enviroment oklah. Then why the need to tell the press or the world about the forum? Keep it among yourselves cukuplah. If you don't know about Islam and syariah law, buy a book or two then discuss lah among yourselves. Why the need to kepoh-kepoh. Then little by little explainlah to relative and non-Muslim friends slowly slowly lah. So that all the non-Muslims understand more about Islam and Syariah law. If they like Islam, let them convertlah. Why bother. But don't convert diam-diam lah. Divide the harta sepencarian first lah then masuk Islam lah. Be gentle lah. Ask your spouse to make a will lah in case that when he or she masuk Islam senyap-senyap, jabatan agama doesn't take your wealth or harta sepencarian. If your spouse die don't rebut rebut the bodylah. Let the Jabatan Agama take it for burial..free what. Just attend the funeral to show last respect lah.
Don't bother the Muslims. Don't talk sensitive things related to them. Sometime you mean good, some people will say it bad. Fikir-fikirlah. Why bother...we need a peaceful atmostsphere at the moment to think about how to survive the economic recession. So jangan gaduh-gaduh lah. Why have you not learn any lesson. Thou shall not talk about the Malays and Islam. Remember the Ketuanan Melayu and Islam as agama rasmi as stated in the constitution. Draw a line of what you can or cannot do. We are just the minority in this country. Just jaga our own kain. Keep the beautiful things in our mind and heart.

To the Malays and Muslims...I no longer know what to say to you guys. Takut nak kata apa-apa. No point to say something. No matter what, you will always be right. Never been wrong. Give up and fed up of saying anything. Many of the non-Muslims feel the same I guess. Baik dok diam as long as you are happy dibuai mimpi.

nstman said...

Pasquale, I am willing to pay for your psychiatric treatment. No problem.

The Watcher said...

Hahahaha! Two major components of the great Pakatan Rakyat have shown their true colors at being insolent intolerant mobs terrorizing Malaysian citizens into silence.

And then they bark at UMNO and BN for doing the same thing against them? Piiiraaaah munafik!

And to the Muslims, we all have to understand that this nonsense only started after Badawi took the helm and allowed Islamic authorities to steal dead bodies in a controversial manner.

You know what Malaysia really needs now...it needs the Hand of Mahathir. Round up as many of these political operatives under the ISA, incite fear, and maybe pull off another Memali or two against uprising and increasingly dangerous islamic extremists.

I'm sorry to say but civil society movements are only a tiny insignificant minority here. Malaysia can only function when it is ruled by fear and an iron grip. Otherwise it will be like childish wild animals running amok all over the place.

Hamidah Mohamad said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

Dear Rocky,

I witnessed part of the demo/protest.Not that I planned to participate but had to be in KL to look into lodging arrangements for my undergrad son.

It was about 1045 am and the crowd was slowly tapering off amid shouts of Babi,Pengkhianat,Allahu Akbar,Keling Pariah and so forth.
I inched closer to get a better view of the Bar Council premises.And I also saw the cops taking away the Molotov bottles.
Since the scenario was rather frightening I decided to leave the place.Just as I was about to hail a cab, I caught a glimpse of 2 of my friends emerging from the unruly crowd.Surprise,Surprise....it was Manaf and Ngadiman.
Manaf and me worked as Pembantu Perubatan in HSAJB while Ngadiman was lab technologist in the same hospital during the mid 80's.

Both recognised me and it was really a nostalgic moment for all 3 of us to meet after almost 20 yrs.
Manaf wore the green skullcap while Ngadiman appeared like a preacher.We adjourned to the nearby mamak restaurant and during the discussions they confirmed their participation in the demo while I told them that I was just a curious passer by.
We steered clear from the topic/issue and spoke about other matters of interest.We split after about 30 mins of small talk.
After wandering for about 20 mins or so....I headed for Puduraya.The bus to JB was scheduled to depart at 100pm,I had almost 30 mins to kill time.I decided to "invest" at the nearby Toto outlet to see if I could lay claims on the 6/52 Mega jackpot which is snowballing to almost RM12mil.
Surprise,surprise.I bumped into Manaf and Ngadiman again in the outlet.This time Manaf was without his skullcap and Ngadiman was minus his long robes.

Really, it took the shit out of me Rocky Bro !!!!!!!

BTW,My predictions for the jackpot was hopelessly wrong and I lost out!

BR
RastamanJB.

Anonymous said...

We are fond of using ‘ saya pantang di cabar, jangan cabar saya’ thingy! Why can’t we apply this so called ‘semangat’ to succeed on business and not on petty matter?

Taxpayer

Anonymous said...

I know there are many idiots in this world... but, why must most of them be Malaysians?

for general info, M'sia is unlike many countries... we have Civil and Shariah Laws.

in a nutshell, once a person converts, he/she is subjected to the Shariah laws.

so, what has the Bar Council got to do with this?

none of their business, I say!

and ditto for the families of the converts.

a non-issue!

(it is assumed that all converts are aware of this when they converted.)

apparently, everybody wants to be a politician.

a little knowledge is always dangerous (A.Pope)

however, it cannot be assumed that I'm in total agreement with the Shariah Laws inacted in this country... but, this is a different issue.

theboldanon.

temenggong said...

Now if this incident had happened in the US, the consequences would be as follows.

The police would have arrested the protesters and charged them in court for disturbance of the peace, for uttering defamatory statements, for hate speech, convicted and incarcerated. The groups involved would have been placed in the Hate Group Watch List. Additionally the Bar Council would have sued the groups involved, applied to freeze their bank accounts and assets, and bankrupted them. Furthermore there would have been a congressional hearing on such a matter and more laws would have been initiated to protect the citizens.

There would have been a separate hearing on whether islam is a Hate Group. Several NGOs and ThinkTanks would have studied the issue and produced reports and analysis. there would have been a lobby formed to pressure the President and Congress.

This does not happen in Malaysia because are police and the AG are tools of the govt, and the judiciary is not independent but guided by race and religion. Therefore we have no remedy through the judicial process.

temenggong

Anonymous said...

this country is great man..forever its either a racial issue or a religious issue..farrrr ouuut!

Congrats and well done to its citizen.

Maybe most Malaysians dont realise this...but I can tell you all from my travelling experiences around the ASEAN region..our country is a laughing stock to them on how we advertise to the world that we r trully asia and multi-racial bla bla but when we are only fooling the world and ourselves. hypocrites they say..

Malu siot....

-Malaysian-LAH!-

Anonymous said...

Dear Pasquale,

To me you dont sound racist but you sound like an idiot.
You are talking as if you are the only will die for Malaysia.

Dont forget, our soldier(malays,chinese,indians,sarawakians,sabahans) are sumwhere protecting this country ready to die anytime.

Dont forget to our teachers who sacrifice in providing education to our future leaders.

Those are the people who has my utmost respect and are willing to die or "die" for this country...sorry for finger pointing but I got to say man just stop blogging and go out go see the country more that we all love soo much. Dun be an idiot by posting such childish, immature comments hoping that you will be looked up as true "pahlawan melayu" Pooodah!

-Jangan Cabar Orang Malaysia-

walla said...

Just a simple question; tell me if it is reasonable or not.

"If you are going to disagree with someone, shouldn't you let him finish what he is trying to say first so that you will know what you will be disagreeing to?"

A second smaller question:

"Why jump to any conclusions before a stand is made?"

A third even smaller question:

"Why do men of real faith need to fear anything of this earth?"

Someone honestly intelligent please answer these three questions as clearly as you can.

BTW just found out so many of those who will be taking their PMR soon don't even know where Indonesia, Philippines, Pakistan, Italy etc are. They only know about Malaysia.

Can you correlate that with this?

(don't have to answer this one).

Ghifari X said...

By Davy de Verteuil
Trinidad & Tobago

1. So why the Bar Council idea is not considered malicious and provocative?
2. What dialogue is the Bar Council "you" seeking from a people with a 1400 year custom?
3. Why is the Bandar Kulim MP label a hard liner now?
India like China has more Muslims than Malaysia but that does not denote the influence and founding institutions by way of numbers.
For your information Islam and Muslims are violently kept in check both in China Kashmir and India proper. So have a good look before you attempt to trivialise the Malays guard on their customs and way of life.
However I implore you Malays, it is not proper that you refer to your fellow brothers as pigs- this is an insult also to God and His messengers. We are all part of the human family created by GOD and this goes against the essence of Islamic enlightenment.
Have you not realized the hatred from your respondents in your blog?
What are you telling us that this reactionary behaviour is entirely the Muslims fault also?
I disagree with the name calling yet I refuse to pander to your condescension of innocence as you aim is. Your sarcasms betrays the rational here.
This hatred comes from all quarters and until you all come to appreciate that none of us can move the sun and the moon from where they stand there will always be antagonist.
The Bar Council attempt to diminish indigenous Muslim rights and customs in an all too pretentious dialogue is a betrayal of civility and boarders on a coup.
The March 8 election results and the current political uncertainty was not due to Muslim or Islamic tradition in Malaysia but that failures for accountability unbridled corruption and ineptitude across the board.
There are elements who believe that this is an opportune moment to belt the Muslims and ransom the country of its norms and founding traditions- well sorry....That demo sends a warning otherwise.
And for those of you sighting the US as an example on any issues of democracy freedom and justice - by GOD you don't have to go there - just read....I lived and was educated in the US and Canada; you have no idea of the US except for its Hollywood and media fallacies impressed on the rest of the world.
Judging from your disgusted ill or uninformed or both; points of views I can only ask: are you all happy with the slaughter of over 1million Iraqis and the pretext by which this mass killings were executed? For your information they weren't all Muslims though majority are and the thousands of brown Christians who were considered collateral damage that perished.
I have not read or experience similar out pouring of hatred towards Britain and the US as I am witnessing here both by the host blogger and its contributors.
How dare you site America as an example where it contains the biggest prison population in the world/history and the black brown and chinky eye peoples are often targets of abuse due to inherent unrepentant racist that forms America's reactionary safety valve?
Why is it that in Malaysia the indigenous have to surrender their traditions and customs because it is deemed unfair when at the same time you “Bar Council” wished to invoke your customs and perceived rights as equitable and just? Aren't the Malay Muslims losing their rights then? I am not afraid to say this; The Malays like everyone else are this nation, but they are the earlier ones.
From the desk of an Arawak African & Indian in ‘ONE’ the beautiful Islands in the Caribbean.
Arawak is whom you refer to as American Indian or Red Indian.
Indigenous rights are my business. No apology.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous,
It does not matter who stopped the forum, it just goes to show that Malaysia has no religious freedom and muslims can take the law into their own hand with the support of the government. Syed Hamid has no bloody rights to ask Bar Council to call of the forum. The forum was not to criticise Islam but to look at ways of living in harmony among the different religion. Sadly muslims are still still against everybody else and see only themselves as supreme being. The cause is still the umno government.
Religious freedom ????

Anonymous said...

Malays are Malays be they animists or whatever. They are everywhere - philippines (where most of them are christians), thailand (not only in the south), cambodia (ditto), vietnam (ditto), Indonesia etc all part and parcel f the Malay Archipelago and in every religion.
BUT in Malaysia, most of them, nearly 100 percent, are Muslims in some form. They have been very accomodating throughout sometimes to the extent of letting other people stay in, buy their house and land by the way of deceit, ethnic/economic cleansing and in collusion with corrupted regimes.
Malays in this country vary in intellect and education. They know what is happening after being so docile, kind and nice to everybody.
Do Not Insult Them
Don't hide behind the so called espoused freedom and democracy.
(And by the way most of the so called Malaysians here are closet racists, I know, so what the feck are you talking about)
Recondite Malay

Bolenot said...

So its official then?

Intolerance and threats of violence are the only responds of followers of this religion?

For once, I like to hear eloquence of arguments and validity of reasonings from our muslim brothers and sisters.

After all, that's what being civilized means.

Anonymous said...

If you choose to be a muslim then obey islamic law.There's no 2 ways about it..in Islam theres no such thing as convert and then left to suit your convenience.

mat

21 said...

Dear Rocky,

I've been reading a lot of news about this issue, but I still don't get it. Why do those people make such a big deal out of it?

But then again, this is how I see things:

Are the Malays (not all of them lah), afraid that once people who have converted to Islam would then 'Masuk' Melayu?

I know this is ridiculous but this IS Malaysia or Bolehland, anything can happen.

I am not trying to promote any racial hatred but I somehow sense it that way. I am not here to offend anyone, this is reality. There are still people who discriminate other ethnic groups.

I think it is a shame, really. The truth is, we are all human, why let our differences destroy all?

Sincerely,
21

Anonymous said...

Fully agree with Zulfiki,
Its time Muslim Lawyers start taking control of the law of their own country.
Bar council must now be headed by Muslim lawyers.
Currently its full of Hindraf goons.

Anonymous said...

Go to Hell with Hindraf and the DAP if they were to oppose anything Islamic and turn this country in to a pseudosecularist Turkey.
I urge PKR and PAS both to dump DAP if it ever tries to mess in this way.

MyMalaysiaKu said...

Rocky,

My 2 cents. This is what you get when people are misinformed. And when people do not know the full intention of the forum, they will react because the basis of their disapproval is not what the forum was held for.

I am no fan of the Bar Council and the President. Not for holding this forum but for other reasons :) But the Bar too should be blamed for being insensitive. Whoever thought of naming the forum as "Forum Memeluk Islam" should have the back of his or her head rudely slapped. You will surely get people upset especially when they are not informed in detail what the forum is. To the ill informed, this looks like an attack on Islam.

Saya bersetuju dengan perlunya pihak berkuasa melihat undang-undang yang sedia ada dan melindungi pasangan yang tidak mengambil keputusan memeluk Islam. Islam itu adil dan bagi saya, seorang yang meninggalkan isterinya yang tidak memeluk Islam di dalam keadaan terkontang kanting bukanlah seorang Muslim yang baik.

I was informed that is the gist of why the forum is being held. It is actually good to discuss the laws and regulations involved and to avoid injustice. The forum was not as I understood to discuss why non Muslims should not convert.

For the Bar being made of professional people and for them to not foresee this shows how untouched they are with the real world. Issues such as this are delicate and they should take great pains to avoid any misrepresentation. First, the title of the forum was just inviting trouble. Secondly, the lawyers in the Bar know the issues surrounding the case, why don't they approach the Islamic Bodies and have a closed door discussion.

There are some issues that can be discussed openly and there are some, that is best left discussed in closed door. Just look around us in other parts of the world. People can be emotional. People are emotional. When parts of people see their religion be subjected to "attacks" outside their country, then when they assume that the same is being done in their own backyard, then you will get emotional attacks.

I do not agree with the protestors. It doesn't make me less a Muslim. Cooler heads should prevail. But the bigwigs in the Bar should also have their head examined.

Anonymous said...

Bar Council should be held responsible if anyone is injured in any incidence that occurred because of their decisions to hold any
stupid forums.

Just because the PM is now a weak lame duck doesn't give them the reasons to "strike while the iron is hot".

Remember that majority of Malaysians still believe that ISA is relevant until and unless Malaysia is governed like the west... eg...USA and Britain.

Bar Council can afford to waste their time if they want to...the malays will never allow such nonsense to happen. Push them if you like and not only you will not succeed but chaos will reigned. Think about it!!

-rocksteady_-

Anonymous said...

Malaysia lacks the openess and intelligence to hold public forums. If all issues are deemed sensitive and swept under the carpet, we end up worse. Fine example, is how our society has evolved over the yrs due to such 'sensitivity'. Whenever people say anything about 'Malay rights' or 'Islam', some people would deem it racist or against the constitution. But do we know that the constitution also accords rights to non-Malays and non-Muslims?

There is no doubt that there are loopholes in our law and society which have led to the present status. Frank and open discussions are required to come to a fair and just conclusion to all. We should start to look at things from a Malaysian perspective instead of the Malay, Chinese, Indian, Muslim perspective. We should be first Malaysians! But I guess, this won't happen for many years to come. We simply aren't 'ready' according to some, maybe we will never be ready.

Anonymous said...

Sepatut nya pada masa rakyat dunia sedang menjadi lebih buka untuk berdialog isu isu. Kita di Malaysia juga boleh menjadi teladan sebegitu kepada dunia juga.
Dari process dialog dialog inilah kita sebagai rakyat Malaysia boleh membincang hal hal dan perkara perkara yang membimbangkan serta cuba cari jalan yang mulia.
Selama ini belbagai isu isu penting untuk seluruh rakyat telah di sapukan kebawah tikar.
Masa depan negara dalam arena global akan lebih cerah kalau isu isu penting ini dibentangkan secara praktikal dan saksama.
Junos.

Sinatra_Z said...

Once upon a time a blind rabit bumped into a blind snake. The blind rabbit apologises and explain that he is blind to which the snake says he is too. So the rabbit asked the snake to guess what animal he is so the snake go and have a feel

"You have pointy ears, furry body and a very short furry tail, you must be a bunny rabbit!" Says the snake.

"Correct!" exclaimed the rabbit excitedly. "Now it's my turn" says the rabbit.

The rabbit gets a feel on the snake and came to this conclusion

"You are long, slimy with sharp tongue and have no balls. You must be a LAWYER!"

gouk said...

Dear Friends,

Malay has show their fist. It is time for the Bar Council to hide.

I am a malay and muslim. You might be shocked at what happened during the forum but it is just a glimpse of what the malay and muslim can do.

More bad things can happen if this shout for democracy and touching of malay and islam even though the non malay and a few of muslim said so.

Thread very carefully if you have to since if you anger the mob you will face the consequences and no law book and high courts will be able to save you.

I am not a violent person, I am only giving advice of what malay is capable of and for us to live together.

rocky said...

we do have a problem and we never had it in the 80s. so how do we deal with it. The best is to sit down and discuss and work out the mechanics within the laws of malaysia. Unfortunately the malay politicians get too emotional and islamic yet they are the front runners for corruption etc.on top of that there are overzealous officer who do it they way. and the malays seem do not want to sit down and talk.

so sit down and dicusss, no harm done. no one is weak. seek compromise and understand each other better.

as for the zulkifli, he doesn't understand that the best people should lead and democracy means anyone can stand for the post like him.

nasionalis said...

To those sonofabitch who claim to know their history, trying to use the Malay's former religion as excuse is a weak, naive and cheap argument.

[How abt this? There are new evidence indicating that before Islam from Arab came, Malays were professing to monotheistic Hindu, and Buddhist religion. Isn't that what Islam is all about? You guys deviated from your original religion. Muslims are on the right path because they are adhering to the last and latest divine message from God.]

It shd be understood that culture evolve and contemporary culture becomes the accepted norm. What fuck is the relevence to the claim that Malay has a Hindu and Buddhist past with contemporary Malays of the past many many centuries?

We have been consistent with God's message by sticking to the latest divine message. Malays aren't going to revert to Buddhism, Hinduism, Animist, etc because it is not God wish. Only idiots and lost souls like Lina Joy can get appealed to a religion that is supposed to expire, ie Christianity.

Bar Council has no right, and historical and theological relevance to discuss a Forum entitled Memasuk Islam.

The issue now is what the fuck is the immigrant-laden Bar Council trying to impose on the majority NOW when it is accepted and taken as norm that Malay and Islam is the thrust of this country?


If they can't hold on to their end of the bargain, do find your way out of this country. Leave ... Please ... take your ways outside!

Remember the real history. Prior to 1957, only Malays including Indonesian migrants are "citizens" since they are automatically accorded subject of the rulers.

[This should dispell those stupid arguments against Malay being immigrant of Indonesia.

Malayan Malays and Indonesian belong to the same geo-culture, unlike Chinese and Indians which are foreign to this geo-cultural area. There were historically seamless travelling and constant state of settlement and resettlement by the original inhabitants in the geo-cultural areas.]

In the British Settlements of Singapore, Malacca, Penang and a short while, Dinding, the non Malays are British Colonial subject. While in other states, non Malays are "guest" or foreigners or immigrants!!!

Remember you guys were British subjects and immigrants, not citizen of the land. The immigranst were benefitting from the colonial economy and the expense of the Malays. Fucking Brits!

[Imagine all these Brits and Immigrants yang tak malu ke claiming rights to citizenship later.]

The Malays to include the Royals (MNP is a minority group) never wanted the immigratnts to be granted citizens.

We were forced by the bloody British to accept all of you assholes because they wanted to pass the buck to us. Finally we had to succumb and accept. However, the citizenship come with conditions that demanded exclusive loyalty to the nation.

[This explains why Malaysia never and should accepted dual citizenship, which I heard Chinese are demanding.]

Babi-babi dan lembu-lembu ini bila dikasi betis akan hendak peha. Bar Council represents that!

Remember all you assholes.

Your citizenship is not a right. It originated as a gift with the responsibility to respect and accept the norms and tradition of the adopted country.

Another bit of history to some of you stupids.

When we achieve independence, many Chinese and Indian do not qualify and was supposed to be sent back. Deng Xiao Peng refused to accept 300,000 undocumented Chinese. So does the Indian Governments.

Please remember all you rejects where you stand!!!!!

Rejects of society deserved to be treated with low class language like this because this rejects of China and India only respond to bold and rudeness.

So Malays, stop being their apologist. Stop being defensive and trying to be accomodative to them. They are not worth our sacrifice and tolerance any more. This assholes have no respect for us anymore. These barbarians do not honour and respect agreements!!!

gouk said...

Dear Friends,

Malay has show their fist. It is time for the Bar Council to hide.

I am a malay and muslim. You might be shocked at what happened during the forum but it is just a glimpse of what the malay and muslim can do.

More bad things can happen if this shout for democracy and touching of malay and islam even though the non malay and a few of muslim said so.

Thread very carefully if you have to since if you anger the mob you will face the consequences and no law book and high courts will be able to save you.

I am not a violent person, I am only giving advice of what malay is capable of and for us to live together.

zaferyz said...

Rocky,

I understand the sentiments behind the protest by Muslims who disagree that the forum should take place. However, did not agree it should be ended with force.

Islam is a way of life. It recognize other religions, never force others to believe in its value. If you were born as a Muslim, and received a fair education in Islamic teaching, you will never regret about it, in fact, like me, proud to be a Muslim. There are thing you can do and thing you cant. for example, you cannot convert to other religions.

When a non-muslim wanted to embrace Islam, it is important for them to know that it is one way ticket. You cant go back if things go wrong or not as you expected. You face it and accept it as a God wills. Like Muslim does.

When you die in Islam, it is a duty fall to Muslim community or authority to ensure that you receive a proper burial. Why would we want to snatch a non muslim body and gave it Islamic burial? When the family of the decease fail to accept the fact you are muslim, our duty just wont cease.

Because our Founding Fathers understand this, that Islam is the way of our life, that we cannot separate our religion from anything in our life, they put a clause in the constitution saying that civil court has no say in matter of Islam. For 50 years, this is the first time the issues is raised. What make the Muslim community felt more intimidated is that it was by the civil lawyers who is in the first place has no say in Islamic affair and the motives is questionable.

If non muslim feel that we are overly sensitive or lack of openness to discuss our religion, it is simply because we believe there is nothing wrong with our religion.

A talk about inter religion however, should never be stoped for it is entirely difference matter.

Anonymous said...

hi rocky,

1. Islam is the official religion as enshrined in the Federal Constitution. The King is an important institution in protecting the rights of the Malay.

2. MSM has always been playing and stoking the racial sentiments that non-Muslims parties have been challenging the above which is not true.

3. The debate serves as part of an intellectual forum for various parties to debate. As much as the protestors having the right to protest; the organizers also have the same right to speak. Isn't this the basis of freedom of speech? Each party has their right to air their views. So long we agree to disagree.

4. Islamic values have always emphasized fairness to all. Irregardless whether it is appropriate for the forum to be convened in the 1st place; let us start the healing process of all the misunderstanding by having an open mind and heart in engaging debates. This is more constructive for nation-building.

5. It is sad that Malaysia which has a smaller number of Muslim populace than the larger Indonesia Republic has such a big problem in engaging debates and intellectual discourse.

creative

Anonymous said...

why bother with road blocks when they allowed the protestors to gather illegally. who is our police protecting?????????

Anonymous said...

MyMalaysiaKu said...

"First, the title of the forum was just inviting trouble. Secondly, the lawyers in the Bar know the issues surrounding the case, why don't they approach the Islamic Bodies and have a closed door discussion. "


i second that. bad choice of approach. interesting to note that some of pkr member & pas & umno agreed on something. nowadays some of the malays sees the bar council as an another arm of DAP.

-- muomali--

WY Kam 甘永元 said...

i don't know WHY ..WHY we cannot have an open discussion about how to handle cases such as religious dispute, conversion ambigiousness and what not. Does that mean one religion is better than another? Obviously some quarters like to think of religion being a zero-sum game. If one gains more, the other MUST lose some.

i am crying for you, Malaysia.

dannalli said...

RastamanJB ... thank you for your 6:01 AM posting.

Hamidah Mohamad said...

Dear Rocky,

Please remove my comment @ 5:40 AM. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

maleh nak komen pasai bar council ni. They are all too clever by half.
I find your update (if it's true) about the kulim mp being arrested most disturbing.Surely that is his right to protest kan? Basic human rights and all that? Surely the ardent supporters of free speech and liberal democracy wd be supportive of him and condemn his detention (if true). It cuts both way, ya tak?
Tak dak apa polis buat betul. Semua salah. Yet expect polis to protect them.
CYNIC

Anonymous said...

If the forum was to focus on injustice of properties left behind, why call it Conversion to Islam? The NAME itself already instigated discontent amongst Muslims. Like A Voice said, the choice of panelists already denote the one-sidedness of the forum. What does it hope to achieve? With a mistaken title and a little bit of negative incitement by irresponsible persons, it could easily be a Muslim vs Non-Muslims forums and that is what Bar Council has achieved by its actions/inactions/comments towards the forum.

The mentality of many Malaysians are not ready for such forum, at least not openly. Why then Bar Council decided to hold it anyway? Does BC want to incite racial disharmony? Isn't it a seditious act by its nature? If really BC wants to be champion of human rights/justice, have discussion with Majlis Fatwa or Majlis Agama Islam. The forum from onset have invited trouble..

I have a question - Do you want to be right or do you want to be peaceful? Tepuk dada tanya selera lah...

MUSLIM

Anonymous said...

Bro Rocky.

If the CALL is NEEDED. I can easily gather more than 1 mil Muslim from neighboring INDONESIA to come here to MALAYSIA and teach this BLOODY NON-MUSLIMS particularly the BAR COUNCIL on what a consequence of such a FORUM WILL THEN LOOK LIKE!

BAR COUNCIL is playing and tuning to their ol' trick and taking advantage of the dis-unity among the Malay.

BAR COUNCIL thought they can have the protection and support from both PAS and PKR! But dear Oh dear...what a GRAVE MISTAKE they made.

The PROTEST were mostly made up of PAS and PKR supporters!

The BAR COUNCIL was hiding behind their rhetorics about JUSTICE but in TRUTH was harping on NOT JUST the RELIGION ISSUE but RACES as well!

There is no justification to the need of having such forum. There are so many available channels to act upon. BUT they chose to proceed with the forum to be the HERO!

3/4 Muslims in this country DO NOT participate in the PROTEST because we saw THE BAR COUNCIL as NOTHING but a COMEDIAN. And to entertain COMEDIAN is a WASTE OF TIME.

BUT CROSS IT AGAIN...THEN THE PRICE COULD BE WORST!!

PUT THOSE BUGGERS BAR COUNCILS UNDER ISA!

~MatKomando69~

shanghaistephen said...

Hey moron pasquale,
I'm with nstman....will add contribution for your psychiatric bill and will top it up for history lessons too !
You forgot majapahit, asokan empire and champa or even the japanese ha...ha!
This here land belongs to the sakai,negritos, muruts, kadazans, ibans, dayaks, bidayu et cetera et cetera and all Malaysians by birth !
Sheeeesh moron...you'll be dying in vain for the wrong country tsk...tsk!

Anonymous said...

I wonder how the Muslims protester who claimed to be champion of their religious and upheld the image of Islam by chanting vulgar language at others, react violently. Is it another hypocrite act! There's no excuse to such uncall for behaviour, irregardless which religious ones are.

How will such reaction give good image to Islam, when most of the Muslim leaders try to explain the wrong perception about Islam
to the world. Incident proved hypocrite not only exists in UMNO but PAS and PKR as well.

Badrul...

Anonymous said...

Rock,

The Malaysia style, i strongly think those idiots don't know what is the forum about and sad to say muslims that don't know much about islam? Lost and influence by BN. What a sad day for democracy country. Jagan cabar islam.......it's was never a cabaran, LMAO.

Olympian.

Anonymous said...

Bar council should not be intimidated, they should organise it again in S'pork where it's immune from M'sian law.

MR KUAN

walski69 said...

To answer your rhetorical (last) question, IMHO, the answer is No. This sieged mindset transcends all political boundaries, and in fact, the abortion of the forum had prominent participation from PAS & PKR.

It's neo-fascism, plain and simple. And a PR-led government ain't gonna change that.

Anonymous said...

Bakaq kena... tak hairan la Zul Nordin pun kena!
Nak buat lagumana rocky, Pak Habib bagi amaran kat Bar Council, pembangkang juga kena cekup dek polis.
Confidence in the country among the so-called Friends of Malaysia - as stated by the US - will further erode with such irresponsible intimidation by the authorities.
Dengaq kata Pak Habib saja Menteri yang akan ditentang dlm pertandingan Umno bahagian di Johor nanti.
Yang lain menang tanpa bertanding. Tak kira la depa main duit ka dak!
Tak pa kita tengok nanti, Pak Habib kena ...HARAPKAN PAGAR, PAGAR MAKAN PADI

Pasquale said...

shanghaidickhead,
Next time if you want to borrow money go the chettiar, I ain't doing it no more for you. All I am saying is this! Okay here is a real and tangible proof that this is a Malay land! Have you seen any sultans or agong or IGP, head of Special Branch, head of Military Intelligence, or the chief of the armed forces of any other racial or ethnic background? That is of Chinese or Indian origins? Only Malays right!? Here is another clue, that is if you are stupid, which I think you are, did you sing the national anthem in Indian or Chinese?
The point here is shanghairottenfish, if you people want to play the racial card, we Malays are actually better at it, I know for a fact that you are racist pretending to be liberal. So if you got buggered by a Malay ketua kampung (village headman)hey it is not my fault if you hate the Malays! Because some of them do come to help you when you are down and shit out! So don't play puck with me moron!

Anak said...

Bru and friends,

Sepandai-pandainya lawyer Bar Council ni, mereka ada bodohnya. Kenapalah buat tajuk forum Memeluk Islam. Memanglah menjemput masalah. Belajar bertahun-tahun pasal undang-undang. Benda mudah macam ni pun tak reti nak buat.
Yang cerdik dalam politik pulak ambik kesempatan lah buat hasutan tentang benda ni.

Yang dok bangkang pulak, nampak gaya cam tak tau apa yang dibangkang. Same goes to some of you here.

Perkara yang dibincangkan ialah soal nafkah pasangan dan anak-anak yang ditinggalkan oleh suami atau isteri yang memeluk Islam. Perkara pokok ialah soal nafkah. Diulangi nafkah. Sebab terdapat kes pasangan dan anak-anak ditinggalkan terkotang-kating tanpa nafkah. Selain nafkah, forum tu cuba nak bincang pasal hak penjagaan anak. Forum nak bincang cara mana keluarga yang tak peluk Islam tu mendapat haknya.

Kalau benda tu tak boleh bincang, dunia akan lihat betapa Islam ni tak adil. Tak seperti yang diwar-warkan.

Pesanan said...

Dengar sini anda semua ... Melayu adalah Masyarakat Induk Malaysia (Bahagian 1, Bahagian 2 dan coming Bahagain 3).

Saya ingin mengutuk kata-kata shanghaistephen yang jelas berfikiran seperti seorang yang naif dan daif dalam ilmu sejarah.

Orang asli adalah sebahagain dari tamadun Melayu dan hidup dalam satu simbiosis dengan kaum Melayu, sebelum kaum cina, keling dan serani datang ke Malaya.

Orang asli tidak dapat diberikan keutamaan kerana merek atidak membina tamadun dan sejarah. mereka bukan masyarakat utama.

Namun demikian, semasa UMNO ditubuhkan pada 1946, Persatuan Orang Asli adalah sebahagian bersama menubuhkannya. Mereka memperakui Melayu sebagai abang dan kita memperakui mereka sebagai sebahagian dari Tamadun Melayu.

Orang Asli tidak cakap bahasa India dan Cina tetapi bahasa mereka dan bahasa Melayu dialek mereka.

Kaum pendatang macam shanghai stephen tak ada hak untuk konon menjuarakan Orang Asli kerana kaumnya datang atas jemputan British dan terlibat menindas kaum Melayu tempatan dan Orang Asli sekali.

Diseluruh dunia, kolonialisma membawa tekanan kepada orang tempatan Pribumi dan Asli dengan membawa masuk imigren-imigren ini. Pelbagai Cabaran Golongan Pribumi hadapi untuk hanya wujud di tanah asal mereka.

Barua2 Cina dan Keling hanya konon menjuarakan Orang Asli untuk menafikan hak orang Melayu. Mereka tidak pernah membela orang Asli. Malah ramai yang mengeksplotasikan orang Asli.

Ide bahawa orang Asli adalah lebih berhak adalah ide Lee Kuan Yew yang disebut di Parlimen pada tahun 1964 yang merupakan alasan untuk menafikan Melayu sebagai Penduduk Asal Tanah Melayu.

Tahun lepas, barua2 ini konon menyanjungi Raja2 tetapi mereka lupa Raja-Raja berbangsa Melayu yang mereka kejikan. Menggunakan alasan ini, ucapan LKY boleh disangkal. Raja-raja Melayu bukti bukan kerajaan baru dalam sejarah Tanah Melayu.

Usahlah ShanghaiStephen meneruskan kebahalolan dan membuang masa mahu cuba mempertikai perkara asas seperti begini.

Adakah anda mahu hidup aman makmur dalam suasana damai atau mahu cuba menjolok sarang lebah. Kamu juga yang akan sakit dan dimalukan oleh kebodohanmu sendiri.

Masaalah orang macam kamu ni kamu tak bersyukur dan tamak gelojoh. Seorang sarjana Yahudi boleh hargai apa yang kita ada di Malaysia ini.

Kalau tak suka, kamu boleh pilih pulang ke Portugal atau India atau pergi ikut Lee Kuan Yew. Tapi LKY tak ambik orang bodoh ...

Anonymous said...

O how beautiful Islam is! And how beautiful those who embrace it become!

the seer

A Voice said...

Mahaguru58 confirmed my info on YB Zulkifli Nordin.

Read here and here.

Old Fart said...

Personally, it is for each one to protect their own insofar as religion is concerned, if this is indeed such an emotional thing when a conversion happens.

It is for the non-Muslims to have indoor or inhouse sessions for their own, not just to teach their own religion, but also to teach Islam as they see it.

Of course Muslims might say that we should not be teaching Islam to anyone when you are not Muslim. But really?

For a start I would recommend that the non-Muslims, through their own places of worship determine what they think of Islam and expose their own kind of these things. They have to of course be honest about it. Not only this they also have to know about things like what happens upon conversion and so on. It is not necessary that within my own home I have got to be politically correct and only tell my kids what Muslims want to know about their religion. Of course we should expose them to that. But we should also expose them to more.

As for the Bar Council, so what if they have got the right to do what they want to do? Hey, if I see a Rotweiler barking on the road I am supposed to take, caution will tell me not to go there or to take another route. It will be foolhardy of me to continue on that same road even if I have every right to walk the road.

.

Brunt Council said...

Bar Council has to be put where they are. It seems Bar Council are trying to be legislator and lobbyist for certain causes.

Wake up. Only elected officials play that role. Bar Council have no business trying to be lawmakers.

They are suppose to practise law with the utmost professionalism. This essential thing Bar Council have yet to do well.

They must first improve the image of lawyers with significant and substantive actions. Otherwise, Bar Council and lawyers is seen as nothing but a den of thieves and collaborators of crime and wrongdoings!!!

starlite said...

If non-Muslims have a bad impression of Islam, don't blame them. Stopping a forum with threats of violence rather than rational discourse - how disgusting.

Equally disgusting is some of the posters here who go on and on endlessly about Malays being indigenous people. All scientific evidence shows that the Orang Asli are the real indigenous people not the Malays. The Malays are a mix of immigrant stock from the Yunnan region and Taiwan island. Ask any researcher and they will confirm this. And besides the Orang Asli which are largely non-Muslim, Malaysia is also made up of Sabah and Sarawak whose natives are also largely non-Muslims. Please remember that.

Anonymous said...

Rocky,

It is enlightening to know that actually the purpose of the forum was amongst others mainly to discuss the
inheritance rights,
childcare and
economic sustenance of the families affected by any convertions so as to ensure their continued care and livelihood.
If thesepertinent issues affecting lives has brought about such repercussion in the form of what the whole world witnessed yesterday than one would think that indeed we have regressed as a nation and have now placed ourselves quite negatively for the new open world to view. BARAT.

BrightEyes said...

>> from pesanan:

>> Namun demikian, semasa UMNO ditubuhkan pada 1946, Persatuan Orang Asli adalah sebahagian bersama menubuhkannya. Mereka memperakui Melayu sebagai abang dan kita memperakui mereka sebagai sebahagian dari Tamadun Melayu.

(followed by other stupid bullshit)

<<


Ya, "orang" UMNO ini memang melayan orang asli sebagai abang mereka. Lucunya!

Pergi beritahu orang asli di pedalaman yang diancam syarikat pembalakan bahawa Abang Besar UMNO melindungi mereka. Pergi beritahu ini kepada orang Kenyah di Sarawak yang dihalau sebab projek Bakun, yang hingga hari ini tak pernah siap.

Pergi beritahu ini kepada Penan-Penan yang dihalau dari tanah mereka untuk ladang & balak.

Sekurang-kurangnya awak ni ditertawakan mereka. Seteruknya, muka anda hancur oleh batu dibaling.


Sementara di Perak, Orang Asli telah berjaya mematahkan cubaan mengambil tanah moyang mereka untuk kelapa sawit:

http://tinyurl.com/6keu7p

Ini berlaku di bawah pimpinan Nizar, dan bantuan Cina Chang Lih Kang, dan "Keling" A.Sivanesan. Kalau Perak masih dibawah si Tajol, sudah tentu orang asli ini takkan dilindungi, tapi ditendang keluar oleh "abang besar" UMNO ni.

Anonymous said...

UCAPAN PRESIDEN MIC merangkapMENTERI KERJAYA RAYA, POS DAN TELEKOM, TUN V.T. SAMBANTHAN DI DEWAN RAKYAT PADA 1 JUN 1965.

“Now, in 1955 we won the elections with a great majority. Then we obtained freedom in two years time. During this period, we had to discuss citizenship and various other things. Now what did the Malays do - since we are speaking on racial lines - what did the Malay leadership do? The had 88 percent of the electorate still with them. What did they do with citizenship?

If we look around in Asia and East Asia, particularly, you will find that my race the indian race, is not welcomed in Ceylon, is not welcomed in Burma. Look at my brother Chinnese race, it is not welcomed in Thailand, in Vietnam, in Cambodia, in all the other areas. What help do they get for citizenship in all these territories? In Burma, as we know, Indian have been send packing, in Ceylon they refused them citizenship and in Burma it is likewise. I know it, you know it. And yet in Malaya what happened? Here we found that the Malay leadership said, “We shall take them unto ourselves as brothers, we shall give them full opportunity to live in this country, we shall give them every opportunity to become citizens.” And so, in 1957, for the whole year, we waived language qualifications, and tens of thousand of Indians, Chinnese, Ceylonese and others became citizens…

As I said, it has been my great good fortune to have born in this country. Where else can you find a more charitable, a more polite, a more decent race than Malay race? Where else can you get such politically decent treatment for any immigrant race? Where else in the history of the world? I ask you. These are the facts. Who are you to safeguards us? I am 10 percent minority race here. But I am happy here.”


Did the malays made a mistake here?

--muomali--

Anonymous said...

Look at China - the best ever Olympic opeing ceremony, economic leap unmatched, people-based efforts, they are light years ahead of us.

And look at us - sodomy, pro-Islamic protest to stop a legal forum about our rights. Such small minds. Just shows that when it comes to matters like religion and race - the Muslims and Malays will dump the rest.

Anwar, have you got asnything to say about your PAS and PKR brethrens?

Malaysian democrat

Anonymous said...

In response to what nasionlis wrote; this is the mentality of a person who still hold on to the past civilization thinking. How will all Malaysian Chinese or Indians feel patriotic to Malaysia, a place where we were born, when we always been reminded that we were immigrant descendant. Should Nicole Davis not raise Malaysia's flag or called herself Malaysian when she became the world no.1 in the world of squash? Or our Malaysia badminton players Koo Kien Keat and Tan Boon Heong for winning back the All England Double Championship, less Malaysian than all the bumiputeras? When our country is under attack by other country, should we Malaysian Chinese and Indian 'just do nothing' to fight against intruder? (As we always been label as immigrant)
Look at America who may have their 1st black president, whom were descendant of slave. That is what we called progress. A nation that progress by not judging or question the color of their skin but the content of their character. Sadly here instead of embrace us, you despise us. Patriotism can only come when their citizens fell belonging to the nation.

Sad Malaysian

Anonymous said...

Is Islam threaten by Bar Council?

Who threaten the Constituition? Who steals the natural resources from the people? Why is our crime rates keep increasing? I think fellow Muslims from PAS and PKR needs to realize that Bar Council did not threaten Islam. It's UMNO that threaten Islam. Islam against racism and corruption. Yet, the government constantly practice policies that discriminate other races and never put a stop on corruption.

We should protest against corruption, right? Did Bar Council makes the Muslim poorer? Did Bar Council trying to convert Muslim?

Hidup Rakyat Malaysia!!!

James

eddy said...

Bro, I think racial and religious discussion cannot be discussed in the open as Malaysians especially Muslims are just not ready to discuss these sensitive things in public. The Bar Council lead by Ambiga has really pushed the envelope with their "sangat degil" attitude.

Ambiga and her Bar Council colleagues must understand that Muslims in Malaysia are not stupid or gullible, they are aware and understands what is going on, do not take them as illiterate bumpkins.

I propose that if Bar Council leaders try to pull up a stunt like this again, the Home Minister should just cart these troublemaker who will harm the nation's security, to discuss whatever they want to discuss at Kamunting and they can have at least two years to discuss these things to their hearts content.

Anonymous said...

Haihh..nothing changed...
we non muslim should set into our mind tat..we dont belong here..
we are 2nd class citizens and islam and malay issues are untouchable..

i dont think even things would change when anwar becomes a pm...

mahathir said melayu mudah lupa...but he forgot to mention they tidak boleh diubah also..

were are use to these situation..
lets continue leaving in the so called religious harmony shadow :)

Anak Langkau said...

In the book, "Lord of the Rim: The Invisible Empire of the Overseas Chinese" by Sterling Seagrave (1995), it exposes the selfish greedy criminal laden hands of Overseas Chiense.

Brighteye regular comment and snipe cynicism of UMNO on Rocky Bru seem to border on unrealistic and it indicates he is a Malay hater Chinese Chauvinist. Read what muomali have written.

Picking high profile isolated cases in Perak and Sarawak does not prove anything.

Is UMNO in control in Sarawak? Who is behind Taib Mahmud, if not Chinese Taukehs? If Taib Mahmud pull his handbrake on these Chinese Taukehs who dominate Sarawak economy, will he stick around? Will they not sabotage the state? It happens all the time.

From whose eyeglass is he looking at the Penan issue? Foreigner Bruno Manser?

Ooooo .... non Malay very concern on Orang Asli. Sure Pakatan Rakyat came to power hardly a year. No shit! THis is just political oppurtunism.

All the while it is the Jabatan Hal Ehwal Orang Asli that have been doing their bit. How many Chinese work or volunteer in that Department. Any Chinese taukeh coming in to help, and without exploiting them Orang Asli?

Chinese being Chinese, generally only think of themselves, lack much moral persuasion and too driven by money and material.

In every business of sin like prostituition, drugs, human trafficking, gambling, liquor, gangsterism, etc behind it are Chinese tokeys.

In every other cases degradation in our environment are factories, logging companies, developers, etc, owned by Chinese capitalist.

Chinese capitalistic greed are behind every infringement and wrongdoings on the people.

Brighteyes can nit pick the mistake and wrongdoing of Malay politicians, but he can't hide behind the undeniable reality that beind every Malay politicans are Chinese Capitalist taking advantage.

There are some bad ones but generally politicians are being expoited by them in their quest to raise money for their socio-political and community work.

In his ever critical opinions of UMNO or anything Malay, he chose to not acknowledge that his race is the prime mover behind the socio-polito-economic ill of this country.

Starlite, you are behind in your version of the Malay anthropology. That is Singapore ISEAS oriental version.

USM has a more current work that dispell those possibilities.

bumi-non-malay said...

Thanks for those pictures again......

One by one Mat kilau analyse and then do some "trick" on them....in hunger and no money we will break their spirit....

The most important is to attend these crowd take picture and u-tube....we focus on leaders and their #2 and #3.....Racist Bigots Must be taken down......and so must those hired "racist thugs".....keep the pictures coming...one by one....

and by the way CURSES on Malaysia with that Songkok and baju kurung on Olympic.....no class lah...malu aje tengok bukan melayu DIPAKSA pakai songkok dan seragam melayu....Prejudice Protocol yang tidak membanggakan!!

Esky said...

All these angry protests achieve is to tarnish Islam, or should I say, Malaysian Muslims' image further, and further strengthen the rest of the world's view that their fear/prejudice against Islam/Muslim is justified. And Muslims continue to wonder over the reason the rest of the world is biased against them...

Time to calm down, sit down and talk over things, if Islam is to be accepted and understood better, me thinks.

Jordan said...

Should it have held it when we are more ready, like after they've held equally controversial forums on other religions?

Perhaps, but if Hell has already frozen over, what's the point of discussing religious conversion?

anakbuah said...

Bro Rocky dan semua,

Saya Muslim, yg Islamnya skrg ditakuti seperti Yahudi kepada negara barat di Eropah dahulu.

Kenapa kerajaan tidak berpendirian terbuka membincangkan mengenai apa2 agama, apatah lagi tentang Islam yg menjadi agama rasmi M'sia? Kerajaan sepatutnya mengambil peluang forum itu untuk menerangkan tentang Islam dan undang2 Islam kepada semua. Hantar pakar2 perundangan Islam dan Syariah (mana perginya Ustaz2 dan Iman2 yg hebat tu?) utk menjawap dan berkongsi pendapat dgn mereka, bukannya mengelak dan memainkan isu keselamatan dan perkauman - Islam bukan suruh duduk menyorok dlm gua seperti org Kristian zaman dahulu. Pergi dan berdepan dgn mereka - jangan jadi umat yg penakut! Maaf Sdr why so serius, kerajaan bukan sahaja patut semak Artikel 121 Perlembagaan, tetapi bertanggungjawap memperkuat dan meletakkan Islam sebagai asas Perlembagaan!

Kepada yg bukan Islam terutamanya Buddha dan Hindu, tahu tak org Islam pernah membincangkan kemungkinan Buddha adalah juga nabi yg tidak disebut dlm Quran yg tidak wajib diketahui oleh umat Islam? Sebaliknya ada yg bertanya "Was Prophet Muhammad a Buddha?" Tahu tak ada kitab/manuskrip Veda Hindu (juga Gospel of Barnabas) yg menyentuh mengenai Nabi Muhammad? Dan Nabi kami Muhammad suruh kami belajar w/pun sampai ke negeri China (Ya, cuba ambil pengajaran bila melihat mlm pembukaan sukan Olympic, bukan berseronok melihat bungaapi dan cahaya shj).Dan semua agama langit (Islam, Kristian, Yahudi) percaya kita semua dtg drp manusia yg sama bernama Adam. Jadi, mengapa mahu 'insult' agama lain?

Asal keturunan saya adalah Sakai, Semang atau Jakun yg Sdr shanghaistephen kata mempunyai hak terhadap tanah ini.

Jadi kepada yg tidak tahu asal usul (yg mungkin kerana lahir luar nikah dan tidak kenal ibu/ayah, atau memang entah datang drp mana) elok jangan buka mulut dan pertikai mengenai hak Tanah Melayu yg sekarang bernama M'sia! Tanya diri sendiri dulu, drp mana anda datang?
Kalau mahu menuntut hak, jadilah polis atau tentera - jaga ketenteraman, dan kerani atau nurse - jaga org sakit dan welfare semua org. Bukan tahu merasuah org, menjadi businessman (memerah kekayaan negara) atau menjadi kongsi gelap/gangster sahaja. Org Melayu jenis yg accommodative dan sudah byk kekayaan negara dikongsi bersama, w/pun tidak sama rata. Hendak lebih lagi - tamak? Jgn salah faham, ada juga Melayu yg tamak dan tidak cukup kaya lagi sampai menggadai hak2 dan maruah Melayu sendiri, melemahkan Melayu sampai membuatkan bukan Melayu dan bukan Islam naik kepala!

Tiada istilah fanatik dlm Islam tetapi Jihad - Struggle yg hampir sama dgn Kristian (sewaktu Perang Salib) atau Yahudi Ortodoks atau mana2 agama lain.

Setiap org Islam perlu ada semangat jihad di dalam diri - tuntutan agama kami, Islam. Dlm Islam, kami dgn agama kami dan kamu dgn agama kamu. Jihad kami mempertahankan Islam dan apa juga hak sah kami termasuk harta dan tanah, bukan menyerang agama lain atau merampas harta/tanah org lain - jelas. Jgn samakan jihat dgn fanaticism atau terrorism. Dtg dan pijak tanah kami dgn niat baik dan maju bersama2, kami terima; dtg nak buat dajjal dan tamak haloba, jgn berseronok tinggal di tanah kami!

Kami tidak meminta kekayaan, tapi cuma mempertahankan apa tinggal sedikit itu - Islam dan hak bangsa Melayu (maaf, bukan ketuanan Melayu yg sempit itu). Adakah kami meminta keterlaluan?

Anakbuah

p.s.: Kalau bercakap pasal sejarah, jadilah mcm sejarawan Dr Kho Kay Kim (bukan menjadi terkenal dlm sejarah sebagai Raja Judi seperti Lim Goh Tong). Atau kalau nak menjadi negarawan, berjasalah seperti Tun Sambanthan (bukan seperti Samy Vellu). Dan di atas semua itu, kalau mahu menjadi teladan yg baik, contohilah Nabi Muhammad SAW. Ada saya sebut nama Melayu? Kalau ada pun mungkin Syed Mokhtar al Bukhary, itu pun beliau berketurunan Arab, bukan 100% Melayu. Melayu is nothing without Islam!

Gilly said...

ambiga for PM!

Sinatra_Z said...

what does PKR and Lawyers have in common?

Both got no balls.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/8/11/nation/22053175&sec=nation

I hate lawyers man, how I wish more Engineers would run this country.

Anonymous said...

Bro,

Zul's statement that it is high time a Muslim was made President of the Bar Council proves the ignorance and the backwardness that inhabits this country.

So many past Presidents have been Muslims including the Taliban wannabe Sulaiman Abdullah. Again Zul does not know what he is saying.

But it is not just about religion. Its about what the Malays have.

They dont have the economy, they dont have wealth, they dont have knowledge, they dont have ability, they dont have so many things. 38 years of NEP and still they are so short of so many things. This is the reality.

The religion is important for the Malays because this is one area where they can show off their 'ketuanan' to the non Muslims. This is the one thing they do have.

'This is mine, not yours'. I need this to show you that I have something, that I am in charge here. Thats what its all about.

So it does not matter if its Zul of PKR, Anwar Ibrahim of (what party huh PKR or UMNO?), Nasarudin of Pas or UMNO Youth - when it comes to religion, they are all the same. Other than Tanah Rizab Melayu this is the only other thing they have.

How true is their belief and is their religion useful for the Malays? Well better not get into that here. Zul might throw stones at you or something.

Anon

Anonymous said...

Dear Rocky,
Bar Council members are history idiots. I wish to suggest to Zaid, the exSTARIAN and the defacto law minister to include history of Malaya in the CLP exam. I wish to remind them, wether they wish the revisit of Maria Hertogh Race Riot that happened on the December 11, 1950 (Singapore).

Prof R.

BaitiBadarudin said...

anakbuah said...
Bro Rocky dan semua,
... Kepada yg bukan Islam terutamanya Buddha dan Hindu, tahu tak org Islam pernah membincangkan kemungkinan Buddha adalah juga nabi yg tidak disebut dlm Quran yg tidak wajib diketahui oleh umat Islam? Sebaliknya ada yg bertanya "Was Prophet Muhammad a Buddha?" Tahu tak ada kitab/manuskrip Veda Hindu (juga Gospel of Barnabas) yg menyentuh mengenai Nabi Muhammad? Dan Nabi kami Muhammad suruh kami belajar w/pun sampai ke negeri China ... Dan semua agama langit (Islam, Kristian, Yahudi) percaya kita semua dtg drp manusia yg sama bernama Adam...
Salam alaikum,
Saya pernah juga terfikir tentang para 'syabiin' (betulkan jika saya tersilap) yang disebutkan dalam al-Quran itu yang menerima 'wahyu' dan menyebarkan utusan Allah tentang keesaan Tuhan dst.
Mungkin juga elok mengenepikan emosi dan membicarakan hal ini secara rasional dan terbuka.
Wallahu'alam bisawab.

Anonymous said...

Dear Rocky,

I wish we all have the restraint mind from shouting uncalled words on others that we are angry at. No matter how angry, we should not called others ' Babi, Pengkhianat, Keling Pariah and so forth.' So is words like Cina balik China or India balik India. As much as we have feelings, so are others. It reflect badly on the mentality of the race just because of a few rotten apples.
Not Perfect

Kevin said...

The Bar Council's intention was good, but held at the wrong place and at the wrong time when people are not ready to listen; Malaysians are still not capable of listening and accepting views with an open-mind. I believe the Bar Council has no intention to disgrace Islam; it is the govt. and the general public who blow things out of proportion.

Anonymous said...

This debacle shows ONE proof;

Those protestors & some of the commentators here are NOT true Muslim. They are the followers of 'malayalised' Islam, just like Hadhari Islam!

Hiding behind the veil of 'malayalised' Islam is ketuanan meleyu - nothing more nothing less.

gwlnet

Esky said...

May I ask for the reason that the PDRM allowed the protestors to gather illegally and not detaining or dispersing them, as with supporters of opposition politicians?

Anonymous said...

I think all non-muslim should make effort to leave this stupid country. Let the malay have what they want - their land, rights etc.

Even with NEP, they cannot survive or prosper what good is having all those rights and asset in the competitive world in the global economy where they will be slaughtered.

A foreign company investing in malaysia is expected to hire people conforming to the racial composition of this country. So as you can see, even for jobs they have to use the govenrment to 'beg' for them.

What bloody competitiveness are they talking about? Let them be lar, they will never grow up or become better nor can they compete.

Those Malay that can, is not in this country nor follow this sempit ideologies of their own race. They are in other countries making money and having better quality of life following the way of the non-malay in those countries.

Anonymous said...

Bangsa Malaysia seems so far away...............................................................................................................................................................................

'proud malaysian.

Collin said...

Wow.

I am shocked. I thought visitors to Rocky's blog should've been the more enlightened thinkers in M'sian cyberspace.

The thing that strikes me most is how so many people resort to the whole "don't challenge the Malays" warning. What are you saying exactly? What's going to happen if the other races continue to "challenge the Malays"? Racial riots? May 13 all over again? Streets running red with blood as Malays run amok with parangs?

Don't you idiots realise that you're INSULTING YOUR OWN RACE??!

Is this what Malays are? A race of thugs? Who only know violence, or the threat of violence, in response to any so-called "threat" to their culture? All the Bar Council wanted to do was TALK. Is that what you're scared of, that when people just want to TALK to you the only way you know how to respond is with THREATS?!

I am not Malay. But I have Malay friends, co-workers, even family members. And I speak in defence of the Malays when I say that they are NOT a race of thugs. Malays are intelligent, considerate and civilized. Those few idiots who threaten violence against their fellow countrymen - they are EMBARRASSMENTS.

pua kang kang said...

The protesters had tarnish the image of Islam. These small timers are trying to get some media coverage I suppose.. so cheap.. Adakah forum itu mengenai Agama Islam atau menegenai masalah perundangan yang di hadapi oleh keluarga bukan Islam apabila seseorang (Suami/isteri/anak)memeluk Islam. Tiada siapa kata tidak boleh memeluk Islam atau pertikaikan keputusan mereka. Majlis Peguam cuma nak cari jalan penyelesaian masalah bukan Islam berhubung dengan perkara ini. Sungguh menyedihkan..apabila golongan yang sama melaungkan Islam adalah Keadilan dan selepas itu mereka berbuat sesuatu untuk menyekat proses keadilan. Jika dalam satu lingkaran kecil yang bernama Malaysia "kita" tidak memaparkan kematangan dan kewibawaan, bagaimana kita nak menonjolkan Islam sebagai Universal. Majlis agama Islam harus bertindak keatas samseng samseng tersebut demi menjaga maruah Islam. Kalau tidak Islam akandipaparkan dalam perspektif yang salah

Anonymous said...

baguslah pihak yg nak main api ni...nanti senang burukkan nama malaysia di mata dunia..... rasanya sudah masanyer diadakan forum terbuka berkaitan perlukan gereja, kuil or tokong di tambah lagi dipadankan dgn demografi penduduk malaysia.....

Anonymous said...

sorry it seems,our secondary school children understood verse 16:125 better then those 300+ people.

what do they expect people in the Bar
were discussing?How to make `bloody mary` or `fruits punch`?

people are discussing about `memeluk
islam ` and `memeluk artis`all over cyberspace 24/7.

feel sorry for them.No thanks to our broadband penetrations.

makenon -the mother of all anonymous.....malu ma

anakbuah said...

Sdr BaitiBadarudin,

Pertamanya, saya amat setuju dgn komen Sdr Kevin dan Sdr Collin di sini.

Apa yg saya cuba katakan dlm ruang yg terhad ini adalah, bila kita decide utk hidup bersama di M'sia ini, tak kira apa agama, kita berjiran. Dan kita wajip hormat jiran kita - perkara yg sama juga diharapkan drp bangsa Cina dan India. Ya, idea itu terlalu ideal utk masyarakat majmuk seperti M'sia tapi model itulah sahaja yg terbaik.

Jgn kata racial riots 13 May, org2 yg fanatik dan real terrorist inilah punca tercetusnya Perang Salib dahulu - Tonton film Kingdom of Heaven (2005) dan perhatikan culprit yg minoriti ini menghancurkan keamanan di Jerussalam yg dikongsi bersama2 org Islam, Kristian dan Yahudi.

Isu agama adalah isu yg serious dan malangnya, kerajaan menanganinya dgn cara yg salah. Org Melayu memang sudah lama rugi dan dgn perkembangan terbaru ini, Islam pula tercemar dan disalahanggap, akibat tindakan politikus yg jahil tentang agama yg mereka sendiri anuti. Mereka2 ini mengaku Melayu dan mengaku Islam tetapi tidak mencerminkan akhlak Muslim.

Nabi dahulu bila memasuki Madinah, ada mcm2 kabilah yg masing2 fanatik dgn kabilah masing2. Itu tidak termasuk bangsa Yahudi, Farsi dan Nasrani yg sudah lama berada dan berdagang di sana. Bagaimana Nabi boleh mendamaikan mereka? Dan bagaimana Nabi memasuki semula Mekah tanpa pertumpahan darah?

Saya tidak berniat nak komen lagi. Seperti yg Sdr BaitiBadarudin sarankan, dan sebagai rakyat yg bernaung di bawah Islam sebagai agama rasmi, bukan Islam perlu diberi kefahaman dan penerangan sewajarnya - bukan mengelak dan berselindung di belakang retorik politik yg merosakkan. Kerajaan patut meyediakan pentas utk kita saling bersoal-jawap dan berbincang secara terbuka, berhemah dan rasional. Ulama dan pakar2 agama lain, jangan duduk dalam rumah ibadat sahaja - bila lagi mahu berhujah dan berforum di kala masyarakat sedang gawat mencari petunjuk dan jawapan? Face-to-face dan pertahankan mana2 yg hak - kebenaran akan timbul juga. Semua 'grey area' dlm Pelembagaan seperti kuasa syariah dan civil perlu hapus dan diperjelaskan. Dalam masa yg sama, bukan Islam juga perlu berkompromi bagi membentuk keharmonian - janganlah diberi lengan hendak peha, atau kemudian naik kepala, kata pepatah Melayu.

Sekali lagi, ianya nampak terlalu ideal dan mudah tapi apa pilihan yg kita ada? Kita kata Islam itu dinamik dan sesuai dlm apa juga masa/keadaan - jadi buktikanlah!

Anakbuah

Tony Montana said...

Jangan cabar orang Melayu. Serious.

Some of you fanatics think you're macho waving threats around. I think most forgotten about an incident in Penang which showed how some quarters got anal ****ed when trying to be berlagak pandai.

Heard that majority of protestors who took part in Penang UMNO's demo against Lim Guan Eng's supposed statement about abolishing NEP were mamaks. What happened? Nasi kandar stalls got boikott. There too freaking bad UMNO has messed up with periuk nasi. I remember reading an English daily which reports on 20 to 30% decline in visitors visiting Nasi Kandar shops after the protest.

You clowns here can wave keris, threaten May 13 bloodshed or whatever the flying ratass you guys like but the biggest losers will surely be bangsa Bumiputera. Islam has the fastest growing followers in this whole planet but has the worst PR image among compared with for example, Catholics. The Pope already have done loads of damage control in Australia following the sex abuse scandal. Meanwhile rest of the world is shaking head at a bunch of people who threaten bloodshed over a caricature of a prophet.

Siapa bayar cukai sponsor Twin Towers, F1, poket besar UMNOputera and masjid-masjid yang dibina sini? Duit-duit babi Cina la brader.

Kalau semua babi2 Cina berampus ke Cina, mana kroni UMNOputera nak cari duit beli kapal selam, C4 utk letupkan org Mongolia, beli mercedes atau hantar org Bumi pegi angkasa lepas? Adakah Malaysia yg bertukar balik jadi TANAH MELAYU akan jadi bankrap dan huru-hara seperti ZIMBABWE? Fikirkanlah

Mart Anon said...

In this instance, I feel it's the Bar Council that should shoulder most of the blame, and not PAS, UMNO, PKR etc.

I had thought this council represents a profession of "intelligent people". However, their manner in going about to hold the forum had served to provide material for some to instigate others.

This isn't to say that such a forum - and topic - should not be held - it MUST be held to bring up and clarify pertinent issues.

However, those involved must take into consideration our own national sensitivities at all times.

And please stuff those talk of "Freedom of speech" and "Freedom to gather" etc up your ar*e.

This isn't France or Holland, where you have enough cultural maturity and tolerance - something attained over CENTURIES. Ours is still at the "teenager" level, so don't expect some people to be at the higher level.

Go ahead with this forum and topic. But the next time, use some common sense so as not to provide material for others to exploit and provoke the less tolerant segments.

Umah said...

The Muslim fanatics in M'sia want to shut down discussion of Muslim converts who have been unduly victimised by Islamic courts. In the Koran, it is stated that Muslims must seek knowledge in science and all matters that will improve their lives. Yet today, its just the opposite; they have shut down all forms of criticisms of Islam. Fearing that non-Muslims will learn how dangerous Islam is.

skilgannon1066 said...

anak langkau

I have more faith in the academic credentials and expertise of the Institute of S E Asian Studies than in that of USM (or UM or UKM or any other Malaysian public university).

It appears that non-Malay and non-Muslim Malaysians are being taken to task for questioning what are supposed to be basic human rights - like freedom of speech and religion.

Interestingly, it seems that the Muslims in Australia, Europe, the UK and the US are becoming increasingly vocal in demanding their "rights" in staunchly secular societies. And, to a great extent, these demands are being met by their host societies, albeit with differing degrees of discomfort and uncertainty.

But it seems that the same latitude is not allowed for non-Malay and non-Muslim Malaysians.

Why is that?

Just the other day, I read that the Prime Minister of Iraq had invited the Pope to visit Iraq, and that the Pope had accepted the invitation.

Would such an invitation be contemplated in Malaysia?

I also came across a report that a Singaporean Malay Muslim law student, Natasha Latiff, has taken the initiative to set up the Singapore chapter of Feminin-Ijtihad. Feminin-Ijtihad "seeks to increase the accessibility and understanding of gender equality in Islam to promote a culture of mutual respect and solidarity between both sexes".

Ms Natasha said, according to the report, that "Singaporean Muslims are among the most moderate and progressive in the world. The luxury of being able to participate in gender discourse without a threat to your life and security is not a luxury that Muslims in some parts of the world can afford".

Singaporean Muslims - among the "most moderate and progressive in the world"?

Where does that leave Malaysian Muslims? Are being described as "moderate" and "progressive" anathema to them?

Anonymous said...

Tajuk forum pun sudah tak kena! "Memeluk Islam", tajuk ini macam nak memperlekeh orang yang peluk Islam bawa kesan-masalah buruk kepada keluarga, bekas isteri, anak-anak...dsb.

Bila orang Islam protes - memang patut pun layan macam tu...Apa Bar Council ingat orang Islam tidak ada 'ball' ke? Sikap yang sengaja cuba mempersendakan islam itu sesuai dilayan dengan sikap yang sama juga...mempermainkan Bar Council dengan protes 'ganas' tersebut.

Kalau nak bincang..bubuhlah tajuk yang lebih menunjukkan niat ikhlas untuk bincang bukan tajuk yang berunsur provokasi...!!!! kalau kat Amerika pun ada juga demonstrasi ...lihat masa Presiden Iran datang ke US? Macam-macam reaksi bodoh mereka...sampai di Universiti pun orang Amerika tak boleh bincang cara rasional...bila sebut fasal Islam...

Jadi janganlah di Malaysia ni orang bukan Islam - tunjuk sikap yang sama tak rasional bila melayan Islam..soal kematian orang yang memeluk Islam....mereka marah jabatan agama Islam tuntut hak mayat tersebut..Apakah orang Islam /Jabatan agama islam tidak ada hak ke atas saudara islam mereka yang telah mati itu? Kes Lina Joy mereka sokong - tunjuk - solidariti pergi kat mahkamah dengan candle light..Apakah mereka tidak fikir perasaan ibu bapa Lina Jailani yang telah murtad itu terhadap anak mereka? Bila orang Islam protes - terus tuduh - tak rasional - zaman batu - tak boleh bincang...

Isu forum dilihat sebagai lanjutan isu-isu yang sengaja menguji orang islam sebelum ini....di bawa ke mahkamah.

Anda boleh kata orang islam tak rasional dsb...tetapi ingat orang islam akan tetap mempertahankan hak mereka di bumi Malaysia ini.

Awang.

Anonymous said...

Malaysians have now become educated on sodomy details, the difference between tenesmus and constipation ....the basics of DNA profiling....but yet cannot have a mature interfaith dialogue

The crux of the matter is there were no insults, some misguided and overzealous
parties "pre-empted" that the open forum would be insulting, furthermore Bar Council already declared that they woul not touch on article 3 and article 121 (1A)......the family of converts have no avenue .....I have written and article about this before, in fact clause 121(1a) is central in this issue.....


Quote~
Article 121(1A) states that the high courts and inferior courts shall have no jurisdiction in respect of any matter within the jurisdiction of the syariah courts.


THE BODY SNATCHERS STRIKE AGAIN-MALAYSIAKINI
-----------------------------------
Vijay Kumar Murugavell | Jun 30, 08 4:12pm
On June 25, 2008, mee seller S Selvam, 48, from Ayer Itam, Penang applied for an injunction in the high court to prevent the Penang Islamic Religious Affairs Department (Jaipp) and the Perak Islamic Religious Affairs Department (Jaip) from claiming the remains of his step-brother B Elangesvaran for burial.

According to the statement, Elangesvaran, who was married with two children, had committed suicide by hanging himself at a premises in Jalan Siakap, Bagan Serai, Perak on June 22.

His body was sent for a post-mortem at the Parit Buntar Hospital which issued a permit for burial.

However, when the family came to claim the body, the hospital staff informed them that the body could not be handed over to the plaintiff because Elangesvaran had converted to Islam at Jaipp and his body would instead be released to ....READ MORE HERE http://www1.malaysiakini.com/letters/85322

Cheer s
Vijay Kumar Murugavell

tzarina said...

Bodoh. Bodoh. Bodoh.

Takde siapa yang bincang pasal agama ler....

Orang bincang pasal perundangan, kau orang kata kononya bincang pasal agama.

Ade telinga tapi taknak dengar. Ade mata, tapi taknak baca. Ade otak, malangnya taknak proses apa yang kau baca dan dengar.

Bodoh.

Anonymous said...

"Flowing Stream said...
As a non-muslim, I do not understand what is the commotion about the..."

That is the problem, you dont understand and dont make effor to understand... just give ^%#$^@ what ever-lah.

Aku.

Anonymous said...

to Tony Montana,

please dont use threat of your tax money or your so richness/brilliant. You dont get it, if you want to migrate out, just go, we are happy for it, we are willing to be poor or stupid as long this country belong to us. we are force to share this country by the british with you remember that. And we are willing to die to protect this country and our religion.

Aku.

Anonymous said...

(heha) : now onwards please dun accept tax money from 'babi cina'
their money is filty & HARAM lah !
mamak stalls, " dun sell your nasi & teh tarik to 'babicina' cos their 'hands & money' are filty & haram lah , ok !!

skilgannon1066 said...

anonymous 12:25 PM

Pak Awang

I wonder why you are adopting the moral high ground?

Its almost as if you are stating that non-Muslim Malaysians should be thankful for small mercies and shut the hell up.

Ironically, just yesterday, the Malaysian International Trade & Industry Minister was in Singapore to address an annual seminar to promote business opportunities in Malaysia and to push for more Singapore investments in Malaysia.

So, while the great debate about rights and privileges goes on, the Malaysian govt is making the rounds internationally seeking foreign investors to put their money in Malaysia.

Which makes me wonder how foreign investors can be assured that they can recruit the best people to run their operations here without having to keep an eye on "quotas", "rights" and "privileges"?

patience said...

I think there is nothing wrong with the forum.

As far as I know what they discuss about are issues regarding conversion to Islam in cases of non-muslim marrying muslim. I believe there's no objection converting to Islam, however due to recent cases of widowers, divorcees, if they are talking about their rights to disconnect from Islam after a divorce, I don't understand why this provoke the muslims because if a person divorce, or if her husband dies and she have NO WHERE ELSE TO GO, why can't they have the choice to choose to stay with Islam or not?

I think what the Bar Council did is fair. We as malaysian should be more open to such discussion. We are secular state. I'm very very disappointed with PKR's protest on the forum.

Anonymous said...

this bra council is only for women lawyes lah : BALLESS !!
how can 'only a few hundred' illegal protestors, a fanatic (dun know dead/alive, hiding!) mp & one umno ( wearing GREEN colared shirt)
extremist could SHUT DOWN the forum
! SIGH...SIGH...SIGH ...DOOMED !!
(niamahx)

Anonymous said...

(heha) : Aiyah, lu semua olang sudah silap faham lah, syarikat kami bernama ' BRA CO. BHD' pada hari itu sewa dewan 'bar council'
dengan rm100 untuk ...untuk...... bincang ....ah... 'jenis2 bras dgn warna-warni untuk menseducekan swami dan lagi mau tahu apakah jenis bras untuk olang islam & perempuan2 bukan islam itu saja ! bukan untuk 'konversi' atau apa apa yang langgar undang2 !
kami peniaga2 mau cari untung saja bukan mau cari apa apa .....apa...
hal..susah......atau ...atau...eh...ah.. maut...cheh...cheh..cheh ! ... ditak,ditak...tausa...jangan salah faham...jangan ...ok, ok ? baik,baik...minum..minum... saya belanjar...terima kasih !!
(PEACE be upon all mankinds, muslims & non-muslims,we are all creation of the mighty living GOD, ok ! amen !)

LET'S ALL LIVE IN PEACE & HARMONY AND 'PRAISE AND WORSHIP' THE ONLY TRUE LIVING UNIVERSAL GOD, AMEN !!

Anonymous said...

At least a dozen e-mails had been sent to a media outlet threatening ESPN reporter and "Dancing With the Stars" contestant Erin Andrews since.ESPN sideline reporter Erin Andrews was given 9 2 odds to emerge victorious, while Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Chad Ochocinco checked in at 5 1. [url=http://erinandrewspeephole.net/erin-andrews-peephole-video-download.html]Erin Andrews Peephole Video Download[/url] erin andrews tape download on rapidshare search engine -Erin Andrews tape leaked ,Erin Andrews tape leaked ,Erin Andrews Tape , Rapidshare Files. [url=http://erinandrewspeephole.net/]View Erin Andrews Peep Hole Forum[/url]
see more:
[url=http://davesh-drepair.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=219179]Erin Andrews Peephole -youtube[/url]
Erin Andrews Peephole Images

Anonymous said...

At least a dozen e-mails had been sent to a media outlet threatening ESPN reporter and "Dancing With the Stars" contestant Erin Andrews since.ESPN sideline reporter Erin Andrews was given 9 2 odds to emerge victorious, while Cincinnati Bengals wide receiver Chad Ochocinco checked in at 5 1. [url=http://erinandrewspeephole.net/erin-andrews-peep-hole-video-watch.html]Erin Andrews Peep Hole Video Watch[/url] 20 Jul 2009 However, they were magnified considerably this week when ESPN reporter Erin Andrews became a victim of video voyeurism after someone shot [url=http://erinandrewspeephole.net/]Watch Erin Andrews Peephole[/url]
see more:
[url=http://www.pst.com.tw/dis//viewtopic.php?p=512367#512367]Erin Andrews Peephole Vide[/url]
Erin Andrews Peephole Videp

Anonymous said...

i will keep updating and this is excellent forum [url=http://waterheaterkil.co.cc/spink+rinnai+rc80hpi+price.html]rinnai rc80hpi price[/url]

Anonymous said...

The finanace market is hitting up - Look at the [url=http://www.forex.cd]forex trading[/url] to better understand the changes in the world's market