Wednesday, September 03, 2008

Electric Proton

Afp pix of an electric Proton Persona
Proton to go Dutch and make electric cars. I hope Azlan and Co will do good in the electric department. There'll be enough competition, as local hybrid car AP holders would be bringing in their hybrids in earnest.

Read the AFP's piece on Proton's plans to go electric, here.

Incentives for hybrids under the 2009 Budget:
EXEMPTION OF 100 PERCENT IMPORT DUTY & 50 PERCENT EXCISE DUTY ON NEW HYBRID CBU CARS, WITH ENGINE CAPACITY BELOW TWO 2,000 CC LITRE TO BE GIVEN TO FRANCHISE IMPORTERS. THE EXEMPTION IS FOR TWO YEARS.

42 comments:

Anonymous said...

I dont know why everybody is jumping into hybrid bandwagon. Hybrid cars are not as green as they claimed to be. It has got batteries for goodness sake which mean is not environmentally friendly and heavier which means economically they are so so. Real world tests have proven that the best of diesels actually give better fuel consumption. Key to green cars are to make cars lighter with low drag co-efficient supplemented by other technologies such as start/stop and low resistance tyres

The Stig

Palmdoc said...

Eventually the energy has to come from somewhere but I do believe electric cars are more efficient. The biggest problem so far is the limited range and charging times.

svllee said...

I drive a Toyota Prius, for 2 years now, and it is a no brainer. Hybrids are the way forward especially in urban driving environments as in most conurbations of Asian countries. I consistently get 55mpg in town and 65 on the highway, for a car the size of a midsize family saloon (2 litre-engine equivalent). Coupled with tax incentives based on low CO2 emissions, the Prius has the lowest in production cars (104g/km) it will be an attractive proposition.

However, if the Proton is purely electric (ie.no engine) then it will be a dead fish right from the start. Electric only vehicles do not have the range (yet) and requires frequent charging. For a car the size of the Saga, it would not be a viable alternative. It will be too heavy. Maybe the Savvy would make for a better choice.

The best electric-only car here in the UK is the Smart ForTwo, even that has a range of around 75 miles.

The future would be in diesel-engined lithium hybrids, that would get close to 100mpg. These are currently being developed by Peugeot and Citroen I believe.

There are some truly amaing hybrid cars coming soon, have a look at this link..

http://www.greencarsite.co.uk/cars-coming-soon.htm

Anonymous said...

Dear The Stig,

Looks like you know a thing or two about cars. Do brief us what's new and news in personal transport vehicles such as types and prices.

"Surimi Barkson"

pisang goreng 115,NF said...

electric car prove failed in past
why proton still want this failed product?
"they" wants proton become "fossil"?

Anonymous said...

my dear Stig,

no car in the world can claim 100 % green. currently, hybrid has its downside with battery disposal issues. diesel cars although having better fuel consumption still rely on fossil fuel. that itself is not sustainable in the long run.

technology will improve and that is why jumping the bandwagon is not exactly something of a disaster. Look at the success of Prius ! isreal is so advanced, they are collaborating with renault to move to electric economy (google project better place)

this is a good step for malaysia..but again...make sure we are focus with what we are trying to do.

i recalled we had this biodiesel act a few years back..and suddenly it out on the shelf :(

sutanpane

Anonymous said...

Rather do more R&D work in the design of hydroxyene HHO production system for the car to maximize hydrogen production per litre at lower battery current. The hydrogen produced can be fed into the air intake manifold (adjust the ECU a bit) and mix with petrol, with very good petrol fuel savings.

MarGeeMar said...

This Scribe was curious as to why the BN/Umno leadership were so afraid to take action against Ahmad Ismail for his seditious remark. After doing a Sherlock Holmes, this Scribe begin to get the big picture. It appears that Ahmad Ismail is a big time Umno warlord in Penang. Ahmad Ismail was cleared of bankruptcy by the Insolvency Department in 2006. Ahmad Ismail is the figure linked to the controversial PORR project in Penang. He is the director of Peninsular Metroworks Sdn. Bhd., the concessionaire for the project. Ahmad is an influential Umno divisional leader and former Penang Chief Minister Koh Tsu Koon was beholden to him for support. That was why Koh was powerless when Ahmad Ismail a mere Umno division leader could wield so much influence over him and accused him of not paying attention to the Malays in Penang.The CM’s former constituency of Tanjong Bungah happens to be in the Bukit Bendera division.

It gets more interesting here, The Scribe discovered that PM Abdullah Badawi was named as a director of Yayasan Bumiputra Pulau Pinang, who owns 34% of the PMW share via two wholly-owned companies, Kumpulan Pinang and Kumpulan Perhubungan. Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi is linked to the Penang Outer Ring Road (PORR) project’s concessionaire company, Peninsular Metroworks Sdn. Bhd. (PMW) According to corporate information obtained from the Companies Commission of Malaysia, Abdullah (I.C. No.391126-07-5077) was first appointed director of the Yayasan Bumiputra Pulau Pinang Sdn. Bhd. His name is still listed as a director.Yayasan Bumiputra now controls 34.78 percent of PMW through its two subsidiary companies; Kumpulan Pinang Holding Sdn. Bhd. and Kumpulan Perhubungan Sdn. Bhd...More http://margeemar.blogspot.com

Mohd Osman said...

Electric cars, diesel cars, petrol, nuclear or what ever, bring it on as long as it's cheap and good for driving to work, shopping, balik kampung, etc ...




Mohd Osman

Teng Ken said...

Personally, I don't think it would really work in Malaysia. The electricity used to power the vehicles are mainly from oil and gas power plants. Aren't we using the same thing?

Sir Taek Boon said...

The Stig,
Hybrid actually is a temporary solution and also a key development of electric cars.
In real world, driving hybrid car is not so enviro friendly but it does reduce the emmission by 15 - 20%. Long journey using a hybrid is also not a good option. Hybrid is meant for city driving so I find it not so viable having hybrid MPV.

I agreed that clean diesel is the way to go greener and better fuel consumption but it will cost more and cost more clearly not the way Malaysian want it to be.

Low resistance tyre means less grip and less grip not suitable in Malaysian tropical weather, what with all the rain and such. Development of new technology on its way.

Lighter car can be achieve by using carbon fiber, but carbon fiber still expensive yet its is also a key. Another key for future car is BMW GINA which using cloth as its body to replace the steel shell.

eugene said...

i am not at all thrilled by this so called latest electric Persona from Proton, since 2005, i have completely lost confidence in Proton's standard of quality. Been using 4 protons, all gave problems,even my latest wira, less than 1 year, lights fell off and more to come

Muhammad said...

Dutch???

Isn't Malaysia promoting to BAN dutch product early this year due to that Geert Wilders guys....

So now we JV with them some more, and more Malaysian (especially Malay) will buy dutch product.

Reference: (http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/4/1/nation/20808744&sec=nation)

bumi-non-malay said...

ha ha ha

If the electric window of Proton is the benchmark......Good Luck ...Keep up the Boycott of Proton, Kancil and Naza cars....Stop the Cashflow into UMNO.....a mind set thing!!

rocky said...

an UMNOPutra with AP will be the one competing with Proton? How wonderful if that is true. Which malaysians are more important, those working in Proton(majority malays) or the quest for one or a few men to get rich using a piece of paper called AP?

Hidup UMNOPutra!!!

Astarguy said...

Good job Proton. Thumbs up.
This is what the people wants. No more engine vehicle. Electric cars is the way to go. Its environment friendly eventhough there is battery waste not that cars nowaday dont use battery. No more expensive fuel to fill. Haha oil company will cry hearing this. Meaning less demand of oil, oil prices surely go down.
I just hope that the prices of these car would be affordable to the common people.
Be sure that i will buy this electric proton cars. Proud to be Malaysian!

My Raison D'etre said...

Bro,

How come the Japanese are not going big into electric cars and concentrating in hybrids instead?

I wonder if they know something we don't.

That said, Honda iDSi technology (the last incarnation of the Jazz) is a real fuel sipper and this time around its iVTEC with 5 speed AT. If only our tax duty and excise structure is not so punitive. (Sigh)

Good luck to Proton though I have forsaken them forever for fooling me thrice.

Selamat Berpuasa.

Click here to visit my Blog

Anonymous said...

Malaysians like to copy all the time without really giving it thought. It's sickening that we can have originality.

Jogi

Anonymous said...

Sorry I mean can't

Jogi

Anonymous said...

given our patchy track record, hope proton is not taken for a wee good ride! intuition tells me that BEWARE BEWARE BEWARE.
if the technology is cutting edge and feasible, why wasnt this launch in green-embracing markets like Europe and United States? Is Proton gonna be a guinea pig to be milked?


YYY

Anonymous said...

I hope this is not another one of those projects where we jump into it just because we have a foreign partner and hence cannot go wrong. The AG's latest report about Composite Technology Research Malaysia's financial fiasco in the acquistion of CAMC of the US should be another eye opener. We have been made suckers time and again by Western interest who take us for an expensive ride leading to nowhere. I hope we have not forgotten MV Agusta. We still have Silterra's multi billion ringgit investment looking for foreign partners. And there are many smaller ones not revealed in public yet. And is Proton making money yet on Lotus? And let us not forget InventQ Jaya.

Western technology start up companies are very fond of looking for Asian investors in their projects. They know Asians are suckers for such seemingly sexy projects which they can brag about and publicise back home. All the while, the Western partner laughs all the way to the bank.

I have visited some of thse technology exhibitions in the West where the exhibitors will drop everything and make a beeline for an Asian visitor to their booth hoping to find the next sucker. So, do a proper audit and make sure sufficient safeguards are put in to ensure promised deliverables are made in return for the money we invest.

Seen it Before

Anonymous said...

Has everybody forgotten the Government's promise to review the feul price monthly, which was suppose to take effect on the first day of every month beginning September? Today is already the 3rd day of september and the world price is no USD 109 per barrel... have we forgotten about the promise? -curious

Anonymous said...

i have no confident with Proton at all. If Detriot Electric is so great, they won't go bankrupt and should not consider Proton.

sani said...

wah!!! banyak insentif tu...er!!! kroni yg dah dpt beribu AP hybrid car tentu suka tunggang tebalik bilang duit menimbun...

edomikari said...

Not everybody is, actually. It just happens that Proton suddenly becomes interested. Although I won't deny about diesel's superior fuel consumption, take into consideration other enviromental factors as well, such as NOx emission etc.
Who knows, helping the hybrid market might allow for further development and improvement, maybe hybrid diesel engine could also become possible.

arep said...

the stig - its a fact or it just your opinion? if its a fact..then where is the source? mind paste the url here?

Anonymous said...

i think the malays can continue to support umno under the nep policies ... because you guys are just idiots to have your OWN people screwing you left, right, top, bottom and centre. yet you say, PLUNDER ME MORE.

Duh....

Anonymous said...

The big 'hoo ha' is the tax exemption for KJ and friends who got the AP for import CBU hybrid cars. The whole world knows about this and the blatant abuse of power.

Do you think UMNO/BN really cares for the environment?

Go on, Malaysia Boleh.

This is the real deal for Malaysian who voted for UMNO/BN. Errrrr....hold on....I WANNA PUKE!

kent lee said...

My first reaction: "Can jalan one or not?" (apart from what is shown in the test car photo). What will be the quality of the actual electric car when it is sold to consumer. Well, Proton is buying the hybrid tech from a Dutch company? I guess I will just wait and see as we all know what Proton is famous for...:-)...maybe I will wait to get Toyota Prius instead...

klimal said...

"The big 'hoo ha' is the tax exemption for KJ and friends who got the AP for import CBU hybrid cars. The whole world knows about this and the blatant abuse of power."

The exemption from tax for the next two years is for hybrid cars below 2000 cc and exclusive to franchise holders of cars. So open AP holders are not entitled to this tax break.

Anonymous said...

There has been various sources information particularly from car magazines which have actually done real testing on real road not some lab environment as most of these hybrid car makers claims. Gordon Murray (the designer of Mc Laren F1supercar) once said that to look at it from environmental perspective one should look at it from cradle to grave- with batteries it obviously take longer.

To those who doubt what iam seeing see below:

Report from Cardiff University Business School has listed cars based on their environmental impact, and it's small, light vehicles that lead the way.



A separate report from Cardiff also reckons that there will be no problem in meeting the EU's planned 130g/km CO2 emissions target.



According to the author, car industry expert Dr Paul Nieuwenhuis, one of the few stumbling blocks towards lowering emissions is the trend towards heavier, higher-performance vehicles.



Dr Nieuwenhuis says that it will take more than hybrid technology and alternative fuels sufficiently to lower the CO2 output of these luxury vehicles. Nieuwenhuis reckons that new, lightweight technology will be needed to make bigger vehicles more efficient, while smaller vehicles will be able to rely on existing technologies and weight-reduction.



It's no surprise then, that it's small, light cars that top the list of environmentally friendly cars rated according to their whole-life environmental impact. In a similar manner to an American report issued last year, everything from day to day emissions to the C02 created during manufacturing was looked at, as well as the impact of scrapping cars.



The now out-of-production Smart Roadster tops the list, while the Toyota Prius comes a mere 12th. Here's the run-down of the top 12 most environmentally friendly cars:



1
Smart Roadster



2
Smart Fortwo cabriolet



3
Citroen C1 1.0i



4
Peugeot 107 1.0i



5
Citroen C1 1.4 HDi



6
Panda 1.2 Dualogic



7
Ford Ka 1.3 Duratec



8
Toyota Yaris 1.0



9
Fiat Panda 100HP



10
Peugeot 206 1.4



11
Mini Cooper D



12
Toyota Prius



It's worth noting, of course, that, that the two top-ranking Smarts can only take two passengers, but the report's compilers say they used methodology that took into account each vehicle's size. Either way, there's no way round the basic physics that it requires less energy to move a low-mass object than a high-mass one.




The Stig

Anonymous said...

hey guys here is the review about the detroit electric car..not bad

http://paultan.org/archives/2008/09/02/driven-detroit-electrics-electric-lotus-elise/

fireprince

. said...

A company from Dutch, with a name of "Detroit Electric", with a Chinese taukeh ... hehehe

Wake up, man !

If that "Detroit Electric" has such advance technologies, why in heck this "high tech" company would partner with Proton?

C'mon !!

There are soooooo many automobile companies in the world that have MUCH MORE MONEY, that are producing MUCH MORE CARS than Proton.

If that "Detroit Electric" is of any good, they would have partnered with General Motors, or Toyota, or Benz, or Renault, or Ford, or BMW, and so on.

MARK MY WORD ....

This "electric car" thing would be DEAD even before anybody blink their eyelash.

Looks like Malaysia gonna be the laughing stock of the world again.

DrZhivago said...

Wow thats gonna be exciting.
Let us all GO GREEN!!
The only drawback, it cannot promise SPEED and Performance like the gas guzzlers do.
But for people like me who just want cars to move around.. This is one good development.

Anak said...

Being Proton, it is gonna be cheap car. Will be bought by middle income group, who are mostly Malays. And they stay mostly in flats.
Can somebody tell me how do we recharge our car when we live in high rise building. And the recharge will about six hours. Owh my God. Can Proton think ahead of time?

Anonymous said...

go proton, hope the quality is there and we dont have to wait for 4 months for the order like current SAGA problems.

zamri, bss

monsterball said...

Our government cannot even understand productivity .cost and time savings ..after 51 years...now talk of high tech and science?
Go check out...how many govt. companies are making money.
Even UMNO S.Times...looses for decades.
Where is our famous Steel manufacturing company..owing billions?

monsterball said...

Obama said....USA will nit depend on oil in 10 years.
By that time..Malaysia are in big financial trouble..if we don't change he govt. now.
So who cares about cars.
What we love to hear is rice can be harvested.. .more times a year....chicken can lay eggs..twice a day...something like that.

james said...

typical malaysian mentality..non of
you here drive the car yet...but
can give 1000 reason to hate it..disposal problem la...problem
to charging...HH0 technology better...Proton always getting left behind...corruption...why choosing proton la(must be hidden agenda)...etc...especially when it comes to proton issue...still remember when they failed to tie-up with VW...how this political/automotive journalist start bark this and that...and now proton come up with new join venture
people still want to bash...what if the idea come from toyota...
same also...people still bash proton...saying why proton always left behind...must be KJ run the company from his office...etc...its weird we have this mindset whatever from proton is bad...japs rules...especially toyota...prius(waa gift from god)..etc...its proven that prius
is overrted...in top gear they challenge prius fuel consumption with bmw m3...with 10 laps running around the circuit...and guess who give better mileage...BMW M3!!!

dude..seriously can you give one car...i mean electric car cost US24k and can run 300km in single charge...the answer is none...not even...compact car can do that..

why they choose proton
1)DETROIT ELECTRIC CEO Albert Lam
use to be head of lotus engineering
so he,s not some new guy coming from pak lah office...proton is the owner of lotus...so the relationship was already there..
2)Albert Lam also the guy behind
proton n youngman JV nego -and youngman also shareholder in this company
3)they need platform...so beside
proton platform persona n savvy
proton as the owner of lotus also
will share lotus elise aluminum platform...look tesla roadster 1st
electric sports car also from elise
platform.. engineered and assemble in lotus factory

monsterball said...

We are not hating the hybrid car at all.
It is just that UMNO government have a track record....spending much more than usual to build something...then a long history of failing giant monopoly businesses under government.
The glaring unproductive govt workers. The sickening University low class..world position.
All these to be corrected are millions times more important... than talking hybrid cars and spaceman.
Anyway...few more days...the wind of change is real.
Have a nice day..to all.

anakbuah said...

Bro,

"in top gear they challenge prius fuel consumption with bmw m3...with 10 laps running around the circuit...and guess who give better mileage...BMW M3!!!"

# You know what....not only BMW M3, even Audi A3 Diesel give better mileage than Toyota Prius.

Anakbuah

svllee said...

Dear Anakbuah, the TopGear 'test' you mentioned is typically misleading. The Prius has only a 1.5l petrol engine and that test of racing around a circuit at the fastest speed with a BMW M3 which is tuned for performance and has a huge engine only goes to show how it can mislead the public. When the Prius is only accelerating, where max performance is require, the electric motor is not in use, hence the mpg drops.

They should do a test of the Prius and the BMW M3 say driving in an urban environment with traffic jams, stop signs etc for over 20 miles, (like KL on a Saturday) and see which car comes out top. The Prius will do about 55mpg then, I wonder what the BMW will do? 10-15 mpg?