And the winner is ....
Tun Salleh Abas said WE are the winner. The people who are interested in the issues and in public discourse. "I think the program should go on," he told me after last night's DEBATE between Shabery, the Information Minister, and Anwar, the former DPM, MoF, and now advisor to PKR.
Shabery did quite well, I thought. He got floored a couple of times but he got back on his feet to carry on. No mean feat. He had the balls to engage Anwar at what Anwar does best. I don't think many BN politicians would relish the idea of standing against Anwar Ibrahim in a debate, especially on the subject of the Government's unpopular decision to increase petrol prices by 41 per cent and diesel by 63 per cent.
From the word go, Anwar attacked that decision as untenable and one that gave rise to inflation. He pooh-poohed forecast that the country's oil reserves are drying up. "Fifteen or twenty years ago, the government forecast that our reserves would dry up in 2005". The keyword, he said, is "... if no new reserves are found".
"And if our MPs don't even understand this ... susahlah (we're in trouble)."
Shabery played the blame game, but not excessively. Anwar was Minister of Finance. He was part of the policy-making BN machine. The Info Minister reminded Anwar that in 1997 he was subscribing to IMF prescriptions, such as pushing up interest rates sky high, which hurt a lot of business people and the layman.
Both speakers conducted themselves very well. They were not emotional and stuck to the topic. Congratulations. And to Agenda Daily for organizing it.
I agree with Tun Salleh, this program should go on. Let's hope Agenda Daily has more in store for US.
Tuesday, July 15, 2008
Anwar Ibrahim vs Shabery Cheek
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Form, demeanour and substance are what debaters are judged upon and on these three counts, Anwar won.
ReplyDeleteI am no fan of either debater. In actuality, I'm no fan of ANY politico. But caught up in the hype I was,and tuned in to watch.
Anwar was visibly nervous in his opening spiel but found a second wind as the debate waged on. Shabery started off well enough but it was downhill from thereon.
Shabery repeated ad nauseum irrelevant '74 shenanigans and comparisons to Venezuela/Iran. Apart from that he commited a mortal sin in not answering a direct question poised. Such chicanery does not bode well for anyone's credibility - but we're used to it since Dr M's off tangent ways in straying off-topic.
Anwar was not too substantive either - failing to inform us where he would garner the additional 2 billion by way of sheer number crunching. But in the grand scheme of debates,he was a heckuva lot more informational than Shabery. Anwar was obviously playing to the audience - the Malaysian electorate at large. And I am sure this will be lapped up all across the land.
Overall verdict: Kudos to Shabery for agreeing to debate and putting his job on the line. However,if he is deemed to be the best debater within government ranks, we're all screwed. It is an eye opener that we have schmucks and incompetents who run our land o' plenty. Anwar mostly toed to the subject at hand and was relatively better prepared. He made his points, had a better demeanour/body lingo and scored major points in not making this a visceral rabbit punchin' bout. Thought that it was analagical w/ the Lloyd Bentsen - Dan Quayle debate with the former winning it hands down.
to Anak bugis
ReplyDeleteKJ? you must be kidding me!
Nanti pasal b$b$ n$g$r$ come out dalam live tv show macamana? nak salahkan siapa lagi?
Fact: most of people support AI.
ReplyDeleteQuestion: WHY "these people lah" still won and become big boss in bolehland?!
I wonder...any good asnwer?
[boleher]
kpd melayutara
ReplyDeleteawak ini sama level dengan minister? tak paham bahasa "langkah awal"?
Ahem ahem,
ReplyDeleteSamy Velu and yah,the Nasri guy can learn a lot from saudara Anwar's response when ATTACKED by others..
The whole world saw how saudara Anwar respond ..SO COOL,CALM AND COLLECTED.-GLOBAL LEADER-
If there's a post called Junior Minister (or Junior Fuque) in the cabinet, then Shabery Cheek fits in really well. Tuesday night's debate showed us that the new Information Minister is simply no match for Anwar. Need I say more? Excuse my ignorance. I have seen his face & heard his name before but only last night the face and the name got to me as one person. His eagerness for the debate made me wonder if he's got what it takes to take on Anwar. Putting his career at stake wasn't a smart move after all.
ReplyDeleteMore senior fuques from the government for the debate, please.
http://siquefuque.blogspot.com/
Rocky,
ReplyDeleteYou really did it this time. You partisan stance is shown up clearly. Just look at all the posts here - practically everyone thinks you are wrong in thinking the Shabby guy did well.
Debat ini adalah baik sekurang-kurangnya untuk SATU sebab.
ReplyDeleteApa sebabnya itu?
Sebabnya adalah berikut: Pertama, bahawa kita memilih menteri-menteri yang kurang arif mengenai isu, tidak tahu menjawab soalan dengan benar (atau kerana tidak ikhlas), dan terlalu fokus menyerang peribadi lawan daripada hujah yang dikemukakan lawan. Kedua, bahawa naib chansellor universiti-universiti kita bukan dipilih kerana kebijaksanaan atau kebolehan, tapi berdasarkan siapa yang paling pandai mengampu badan eksekutif kerajaan.
Ini kenyataan.
Dan dari ini, rakyat boleh memilih pihak mana yang mereka mahukan sebagai kerajaan.
Debat seperti ini harus diadakan lagi antara tokoh-tokoh kerajaan/pembangkang lain mengenai pelbagai lagi isu pembangunan dan kebajikan negara. Bukan sahaja agar rakyat faham isu-isu yang berkenaan terus dari mereka yang bertanggungjawab dari pucuk pimipinan, tapi juga agar rakyat tahu apakah kaliber sebenar pemimipin-pemimpin kita dan golongan berpangkat besar yang menjadi pengampu kerajaan BN.
Terima kasih.
Anwar 1, Shabery 1, Rakyat?
ReplyDeleteAnwar 1 sbb die dapat national airtime dan menggunakan sebaik mungkin airtime itu utk menabur janji-janji menjangkaui capaiannya sebelum ini kerana penonton terdiri dari kalangan penyokong dan pembangkang.
Shabery 1 sbb die dapat publisiti sebagai seorg yang ade 'balls to stand up' kpd seorang real politician seperti anwar yang lebih bijak berbicara dgn pengalaman lama sebagai menteri dan pernah memegang jawatan menteri kewangan.
Rakyat?
penat tepuk tangan, penat tepuk dahi, penat jerit terlolong, penat pikul bakul dosa sebab mengutuk dan mengeluarkan kata-kata kesat sepanjang debat. tapi masih perlu membayar RM2.70 utk minyak utk sekurang-kurangnya sehingga tahun hadapan.
perlu ingat, dedua ahli politik yang rajin dan selalu menabur janji sana-sini, anwar tak terkecuali. tapi apa kepastian yang kita terima kalau sekiranya pemerintahan bertukar tangan.. dan malaysia masih mempunyai kedaulatan?
sekiranya petronas boleh mencari gali di luar dr malaysia... tapi world petroleum reserve boleh bertahan sampai bila? seharusnya, kerajaan lebih mementingkan utk mencari sumber tenaga alternative dr pergantungan terhadap petroleum..
sejauh mana pandangan kita, sekiranya IPP di katakan masalah, consolidatekan semua IPP di Malaysia di bawah satu conglomerate dan arahkan mereka utk R&D tenaga alternative dalam masa 10 tahun dr sekarang. sekiranya vietnam, thailand dan indonesia sudah bercadang mempunyai reaktor nuklear dalam masa 10 tahun.. bagaimana dgn kita? masih di tampuk lama? masih fikir nuklear berbahaya? atau nuklear sebagai sumber tenaga murah?
low blow to the current politician. forget to enforce army force by unnecessary submarine or personal jet when u can use MAS airlines as the money can be invest in nuklear reactor R&D....
As we talking about the increase of oil price, would be better choice if BN team select Finance Minister (hehe..also Our Pak Lah as PM & Finance Minister 1) to debate against our DSAI…talking about facts and good information related to economics…
ReplyDeleteDSAI talked about all d facts and as information minister talking nonsense…
rocky, asked tun salleh for a debate with tun dr m ....
ReplyDeleteand kindly told him, not a single cent that he received frm ex gratia payment , if took frm my taxed that i paid to the government , diHALALKAN.
drmuzi
Defending unpopular decision like the price hike on petrol and diesel was never an easy task. Shaberry did a good job in defending the decision. It is easy to talk this and that when you are not in the government and I like when Shabery mentioned that why not asking petrol for free rather then a mere 50 cents cut. Public need to be reminded who Anwar was when he was with the government. By the way, what happened to all the facinating promises in Selangor's election manifesto now that they are the government?
ReplyDeleteDear Rocky Bru..
ReplyDeleteSorry. Anwar was excellent last night, and Shabery is a total looser. Anwar make it clear that the focus is on rakyat, how to help the poor people, meanwhile Shabery is talking about government & keep on attacking Anwar personal political history, which seems to be unprofessional.
I wonder when Shabery will tender his resignatio as per promised.
the real winner is nordin kardi for showing his ineptudeness..
ReplyDeletei couldnt agree more on anon at 12.24pm
ReplyDeletei think i just saw a man who i believe will install my proudness to my beloved country..-normal citizen-
SC and Bn plan from the beginning it seems to attack Anwar on a personal basis. That seems didn't go down well and Anwar was way ahead in terms of facts. BN is still has not learned their lesson and now they have confirmed what Dr.M has said, HP6 gomen and ministers.
ReplyDeleteBro rockybru- there seems to be a shift on how you look at things, which is your choice yeah. But at times we need to report the facts. My guess you been hanging around Tun Mahatir and seem to taken on an anti PR stand. That is your right sir cos this your blog and your views. we can only hope you be fair and square on outcomes like debates.
And The Losers are.... The Rakyat.
ReplyDeleteWe will always be the losers no matter how many thousands more of such debates they will have. Thats what the politicians are good for... talk talk and talk but does nothing.
Salam,
ReplyDeleteSabery telah pun menerangkan kewajaran kerajaan menaik harga minyak. Menurut Sabary kenaikan adalah masalah global bukan kerana masalah pengurusan dan pembaziran yang diucapkan oleh anwar. Alasan yang diberikan oleh sabery adalah sekiranya hanya petrol di malaysia sahaja yang naik tidak kepada negara yang lain boleh dikatakan masalah pengurusan sebalik tidak begitu.
Sabery juga telah menerangkan kaitan diantara kenaikan petrol dan inflasi. Bagaimana kerajaan mampu membendung kenaikan harga barang keperluan tidak melebihi 6 peratus (8 peratus kata Anwar) secara purata dan jauh lebih rendah berbanding dgn negara lain sebagai contoh yang diberikan harga beras di Malaysia adalah lebih rendah dari Thailand negara pengeksport beras. Bukankah ini satu pengurusan subsidi yang cekap dan yang lebih adil.
Sabery juga ada menerang langkah menurunkan harga minyak adalah tidak tepat kerana subsidi tidak diberikan kepada golongan sasar iaitu rakyat yang miskin yang lebih memerlukannya, sebaliknya golongan kaya yang tidak sepatutnya mendapatkan subsidi mendapat subsidi. Kesilapan sabery ialah tidak menerangkan di mana wang dijimatkan disalurkan kepada rakyat, diantaranya adalah subsidi tunai rm200 kepada nelayan kecil dan pengunguman baru pada jumaat ini.
Para penyokong pembangkang hanya menafsir apa yang diperkatakan oleh Anuar tetapi memekakkan telinga apabila sabery berbicara. Keputuan pantas dibuat anwar menang kerana sabery sekali sekala menghentam Anuar secara peribadi bukan kerana point2 yang dibicarakan. Kenapa ini yang putuskan oleh penyokong pakatan rakyat adalah kerana MEREKA TIDAK RELA ANUAR KALAH ATAU DISETARAFKAN DENGAN MUKA BARU dari kerajaan BN.
Salam.
As so many have pointed out, Shabery was too engrossed with personal attacks that he lost sight of the objective of the debate.
ReplyDeleteHis performance reminded me of Syed Hamid's when he was interviewed on BBC's Hardtalk. When the pressure was on, all he could muster was "our way". Shabery was no different. He just repeated the official line that the price hike was for the rakyat's good. No explanation how and why it was for the rakyat's good. And there was no clear economic strategy backed by facts and figures to substantiate how the Govt. will deal with the looming crisis caused by these massive hikes. Lumping us with Venezuela, Iran etc is no consolation to us.
Prophet of Doom
AI kept insisting that his proposal for a RM0.50/liter reduction in price to RM2.20 will only incur about RM5-6billion 'revenue' loss.
ReplyDeleteIf we then consider the RM625 annual rebate 'given' by the AAB administration and multiply this against 10.7 million cars, it works out to RM6.687 billion.
Huh! Duh!
AI managed to wiggle himself out with his reduction proposal based on the new price of RM2.20 when in fact his idea originated prior to GE12 when the price was RM1.92. Hence, he should be referring to RM1.42 and not RM2.20.
SC did not capitalise and expand on Petronas having a 40% retail market share and should have mentioned the numbers siphoned off by 'foreign' kiosks.
If AI now claims that he was against the terms offered to the IPPs in the 90s, why didn't he step down in protest.
SC's inability to think on his feet during part two and three of the debate shows his unpreparedness which led to the frothy, rubbery lips for all to see. Bad for perception lah if he cannot handle soalan cepumas.
Therefore, both debaters DID NOT offer a convincing argument at all.
We are screwed one way or the other.
P.S. I'm also in agreement with Rox and Debutante Debater. Malaysians are NOT ready for free speech coz they aren't good listeners and observers.
P.P.S. AI - 0. SC - 0. TR/TDM - 2. Hey, go figure ok.
I disagree, bro
ReplyDeleteBefore we judge which side won the debate, we have to look at their original objective. For Shabery, the objective is to defend Government's move on fuel rise and to win over the so called independents/sceptics. On this, Shabery failed. Those who are sceptical remain sceptical. And I think he didn't even win over Anwar's sceptics. What he did was just repeating what you can read in the mainstream media, nothing new. Whereas Anwar has done a good job in recommending many measures to justify his proposal. And he was very forward looking compared to Shabery, who kept on looking backward into 30/40 years old stories.
Lets look at all this issue from a global perspective and how it impacts us and our country's decision ahead.
ReplyDeleteThe link below tells about our opinion:
http://www.bursatradingideas.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=42
Sabery Cheek - Who is this Joker??
ReplyDeleteadikasia
This debate is not about guts, the subject is FUEL HIKE!
ReplyDeleteIf you have to debate, be a gentleman debater, stick to the issue or don't waste our time. It is about finding solutions to deflate a difficult situation. There are many ways to reach a destination, we like to know who can provide the best solution.
Shabery in this debate, you have demonstrated to the audience your
lack of knowledge on the subject, repeatedly went off track. Perhaps, Roc can suplly you with a few pointers..hahaha (feeling better now, Roc?) Middleground
I don't give a toss. Debate, debat, till the cows come home. But we are still in doldrums. Woke up this morning, and there are bills to be paid.
ReplyDeleteAnomie
Rocky,
ReplyDeleteI think that the personal attack by Shabery towards Anwar is only to let people know what type of people Anwar is.
Like Shabery said, anwar against Tun Razak when he make Pertonas and takes its to the streets. He also doing the same thing now.
And other things maybe Shabery should said is that Anwar lawan all the pemimpin yang berusaha untuk membangunkan negara dan juga Petronas.
Tun Razak, Tengku Razali, Tun Mahathir and also Paklah. Tun Razak tubuhkan Petronas, Tengku Razali berusaha membangunkan Petronas, Tun Mahahir expand Petronas to what it is now, and Pak Lah is defending Petronas rosak from people like Anwar.
So the attack is just to show who is Anwar and how he would said anything when to get popularity, but when he was Minister of Finance, he did worst things....
Hello Desperado!!!
ReplyDeleteEven the deaf can tell that Shabery failed many times.....his answers are so unintelligent and off tangent many times....you must be real desperate fan of UMNO.
Salam,
ReplyDeleteSabery telah pun menerangkan kewajaran kerajaan menaik harga minyak. Menurut Sabary kenaikan adalah masalah global bukan kerana masalah pengurusan dan pembaziran yang diucapkan oleh anwar. Alasan yang diberikan oleh sabery adalah sekiranya hanya petrol di malaysia sahaja yang naik tidak kepada negara yang lain boleh dikatakan masalah pengurusan sebalik tidak begitu.
Sabery juga telah menerangkan kaitan diantara kenaikan petrol dan inflasi. Bagaimana kerajaan mampu membendung kenaikan harga barang keperluan tidak melebihi 6 peratus (8 peratus kata Anwar) secara purata dan jauh lebih rendah berbanding dgn negara lain sebagai contoh yang diberikan harga beras di Malaysia adalah lebih rendah dari Thailand negara pengeksport beras. Bukankah ini satu pengurusan subsidi yang cekap dan yang lebih adil.
Sabery juga ada menerang langkah menurunkan harga minyak adalah tidak tepat kerana subsidi tidak diberikan kepada golongan sasar iaitu rakyat yang miskin yang lebih memerlukannya, sebaliknya golongan kaya yang tidak sepatutnya mendapatkan subsidi mendapat subsidi. Kesilapan sabery ialah tidak menerangkan di mana wang dijimatkan disalurkan kepada rakyat, diantaranya adalah subsidi tunai rm200 kepada nelayan kecil dan pengunguman baru pada jumaat ini.
Para penyokong pembangkang hanya menafsir apa yang diperkatakan oleh Anuar tetapi memekakkan telinga apabila sabery berbicara. Keputuan pantas dibuat anwar menang kerana sabery sekali sekala menghentam Anuar secara peribadi bukan kerana point2 yang dibicarakan. Kenapa ini yang putuskan oleh penyokong pakatan rakyat adalah kerana MEREKA TIDAK RELA ANUAR KALAH ATAU DISETARAFKAN DENGAN MUKA BARU dari kerajaan BN.
Salam.
rakan pr,
ReplyDeleteHakikatnya anda semua bersetuju minyak dinaikkan selepas pru12 berbanding apa yang dikatakann oleh anwar sebelum pru12 "hari ini pakatan memerintah esok minyak turun harga"
Hakikatnya anda semua bersetuju adalah wajar kerajaan BN menaikkan harga cuma sepatut kurang 50 sen seperti yang ditawarkan oleh anuar.
Hakikatnya anda semua sebelum ini menelan bulat apa yang pembohongan oleh anwar bahawa "kenapa minyak kita semua harus naik kerana petronas juga mendapat keuntungan besarrr hasil kenaikan harga minyak" sebaliknya anwar hanya menyentuh hal2 ketirisan dan kebocoron dan pengurusan kewangan yang cekap itu hanya dapat menjimatkan RM5 Billion. Bukan menyentuh pendapatan Petronas.
bagaimana pula harga minyak terus naik berapa bilion lagi dapat dijimatkan oleh kerjaan PR untuk terus menampung sabsidi. Pada saya penyelesaian yang diwar-warkan oleh anuar tidak lebih hanya retorik dan bersifat sementara bukan berasakan perkiraan ekonomi yang hebat.
Hakikatnya anda semua bersetuju harga minyak dinaik!!!
I think Shabery did well. I am surprised. Anwar just tries to play it cool but I dont believe in his gimmick.
ReplyDeleteHappy of Government protecting national interest.
yo kilat,
ReplyDeleteWe're talking about future not backtracking the UMNO history. Let bygone be by gone.
Why we need keep reminded with sejarah hapak, now rakyat don't have any options left and the only options is changing the current flip flop administrations.
Like chi8 said..this is debate on the issues and not personality. Human change and mature. That's facts of life.
___
http://readerdee.blogspot.com
Actually, 50 cents is enough for us... Taht cheek guy no need to remind us that the initial promised is even lower...
ReplyDeleteI want the 50 cents down! I vote for the 50 cents down!!!
And I just wondering, why Anwar said he only begged for Gov to "save" 2 - 3 billions for the rakyat... and the cheek guy keep saying Anwar wanna slash Petronas's profit?
May be he needs to reattend English school...
- orang biasa
Anwar Ibrahim may be guilty of propounding his version of "voodoo economics".
ReplyDelete- how can he justify his claim that "if we become the next govt, we will reduce the price of of petrol by 50 sen the next day, bringing oil prices to RM2.20...the burden on the people is spiralling out of control. We can reduce it with a 5 billion dollar fund"?
- where did he get the idea that half the money could be raised by cutting overcapacity at Tenaga Nasional? Surely he should be aware that TNB by itself does not have excess capacity; the surplus capacity that it has is because it is constrained to purchase the output of the independent power producers (IPPs). I note that Anwar was careful not to comment on the role of the IPPs.
- if Anwar was aware of the latest Petronas profit figures, he would have known that Petronas will pay the federal govt RM62.8 billion this year in the form of dividends, royalty taxes and export duties. Petronas's payments to the federal govt now account for 44 per cent of federal revenue. The oil and gas sector, as pointed out in a report in the Spore Business Times today, contributes more than 50 per cent of federal govt revenues. Did Anwar come up with any ideas on how the federal govt can reduce its dependence on payouts from Petronas, and whether it can raise additional revenue from other sources?
- is Anwar aware of the fact that even with thel latest price increases for petrol and diesel, fuel subsidies (for petrol, diesel and LPG) will cost the federal govt RM30 billion this year? How does he propose to fund this RM30 billion without the federal govt budget being in perpetual deficit?
- Malaysia's reserves of oil and natural gas are depleting reserves. As per figures provided by Petronas CEO Hassan Marican, Malaysia's estimated reserves of crude oil is 5.46 billion barrels and natural gas is 88 trillion cubic feet, compared with Saudi Arabia's oil reserves of 264 BILLION BARRELS and Russia's natural gas reserves of 1,680 TRILLION CUBIC FEET. How will Anwar deal with a scenario where Malaysia becomes a net importer of both oil and natural gas?
- was Anwar aware of the fact that an international rating agency (Fitch) had cut India's credit outlook to "negative", because of concerns that rising subsidies, interest payments and wages will weaken the Indian govt's finances? This has negatively impacted bonds, the Indian rupee and Indian stocks. Will this be repeated for Malaysia, if the country's credit outlook is downgraded if the federal govt can't get subsidies and the budget deficit under control?
MY CONCLUSION IS THAT ANWAR MUST BE SPECTACULARLY ILL-ADVISED BY HIS ECONOMICS GURUS. HE IS PEDDLING A DANGEROUS BRAND OF POPULIST ECONOMICS WITH LITTLE OR NO IDEA OF HOW TO STRENGTHEN THE RINGGIT, BRING INFLATION UNDER CONTROL, REDUCE THE FEDERAL GOVT BUDGET DEFICIT AND WEAN THE COUNTRY OFF SUBSIDIES AND PRICE CONTROLS.
Anwar may be good in debate.
ReplyDeleteBut his points clearly fail,
I cannot buy his arguments in lowering oil prices. Just for a short personal relief I cannot be sacrificing Nations future resources and national pride like Petronas.
Obviously atleast the price hike,
the govt seems to have done with full confidence and with good intent, hence the challenge to debate accepted.
Dr Zainah
Tiada perkara baru yang didebatkan dalam soal kenaikan harga minyak antara mereka berdua malam tadi. Semua yang ditimbulkan sudah pun menjadi pengetahuan umum. Tidak ada pun jalan penyelesaian.
ReplyDeleteAnwar ambil mudah sahaja. Berikan dia kuasa menjadi Perdana Menteri dengan kerajaan barunya, tahulah apa dia hendak buat. Tetapi Anwar tidak boleh kelentong setiap rakyat setiap masa. Bukan mudah mengawal harga minyak yang dikuasai oleh pedagang asing yang mementingkan untung semata-mata. Minyak yang ada di negara kita cukup makan sahaja.
Shabery pun tidak memperincikan kenapa kerajaan telah menaikkan harga minyak padahal inilah wadah yang terbaik untuk kerajaan memberi penjelasan yang meyakinkan. Beliau sibuk mengungkit kisah silam Anwar yang semua orang tahu kaki gempak dan kelentong. Beliau jelas tidak profesional dan meyakinkan.
Hasilnya, rakyat menghabiskan masa untuk menyaksikan mereka yang mempunyai kepentingan politik peribadi - seorang hendak menjadi Perdana Menteri dan seorang lagi mencari populariti dan tempat dalam hieraki UMNO - sedangkan rakyat masih terbeban dan terpinga-pinga dengan kehidupan yang semakin payah dan merunsingkan.
Bro,
ReplyDeleteKalau BN ajak lawan bola..kita main bola...jgn pulak pihak BN tu campur aduk bola dgn ragbi..whatever it is..TQ for both side to display their true color..
Hidup PETRONAS!!
G
We have to be very objective in solving this issue of fuel hike crisis. As shown from last night debate you can see who are proactive in solving the nation's economy and people's hardship and who are not.
ReplyDeleteDSAI shown a proactive role in solving the problem. Proposed IPP reduction, the use of the extra special dividend of RM6 Billion(windfall due to oil hike)given by Petronas. In the debate he had taken an active role in solving the issue. Bear in mind this is only one step can be taken. There are many other mechanism such as our food crisis in Malaysia can be tackle by Palm Oil and Rubber, as both resources had hit market high price. The land was supposed to grow foods had been replaced by high value palm oil and rubber plantation. In Malaysia we are not solely dependent on oil as nation natural resources. Therefore foods inflation can be tackle this way, instead of using oil subsidy which will results in uncontrollable inflation. Like what DSAI described, help the poor called 'subsidy' help the rich called 'incentive'. Corruption and Commission. Both means the same. It only a 60 minute debate show, it is understandable that DSAI did not have enough time debate all possible mechanism. However he have shown that even without touching others natural resources and saving from good governance and effective management (public money save thru corruption and wastage), he can reduced the petrol price by 50 cents. Given prioritize public transport projects. Given a chance to implement all other mechanism, the price may be further reduce. DSAI will not be doing this alone. He will have a group of intellectuals to help him solve the issue. He had taken the lead by showing his proactive role in solving the issue.
On the other hand, what has the Malaysia CIO proposed to tackle on this issue? From his words (personal attack) and body languages tells us that the government have a 'shove it down your throat attitude'. No facts and figures to back up the hike will help Malaysia's economy in long term. There is a saying that if you can't even tackle the short term issue, you can forget about the long term. Inflation and rising fast. One important question he did not answer was: what have been done from the previous saving from year 2006 hike? His lame answer was that oil price gone up higher therefore no saving for improving our public transport. Then what if the oil price go up further again, and 3-5 years down the road, they will tell us the same excuse, sorry no saving, as the price of oil when up higher. This come back to the question of who they prioritize? How much they have allocate for public transport currently? Just look at Penang Monorail project.
You guys be the judge. Who are more incline in solving the Malaysia's economy and its people hardship. Point to ponder: DSAI have the right of NOT TO teach all those in the government ways of tackling the current oil hike issues. The election had over. Credit will not be given to DSAI if all DSAI proposals are to implement and succeed in tackling the oil crisis. The government will surely take the credit for next election campaign.
Concern Citizen
I know all Anwar haters would like if the debate was at least a draw. It was not. He won, fair and square, and it was clear even to those that do not like him. The argument that our previous positions and actions have anything to do with our current stand are so ridiculous. People evolve, change their opinions and understand things. In the debate Anwar was focused, the Minister thought he was in a Terengganu kampung having a pre-election campaign. Stupid loser.
ReplyDelete/// Bru, check it out please. If it's true Anwar DID NOT agree to the IPP's terms, why did he not put his foot down man? ///
ReplyDeleteTimoti - you really have short memory, don't you? You want him to put his foot down? Then the false charges of sodomy would have been slammed down on him at that time instead of in 1998.
Hi
ReplyDeleteWhat both debaters fail to say with clarity is, we as Malaysian should FILL-UP AT PETRONAS.
Help to keep the subsidy (or part of it) in Malaysia.
SO NEXT TANK OF GAS (OR PART THERE OFF) PLEASE FILL-UP AT PETRONAS.
AM
Both candidates performed well on tv. Would say Shabery spoke and carried himself well. The previous Info Minister would have caused big shame to BN.
ReplyDeleteDon't think any other ministers especially Mr PM and DPM can do the same. He also managed to avoid the deadly blow (referring to dilapidating public transport system) by turning the issue into food crisis.
Anyway, rakyat are not stupid my dear Mr Information Minister. We can figure out the same old BN tricks twisting and turning away from facts and figures.
As Information Minister representing the government, you cant even give a simple answer with facts and figures to substantial reason for a sudden fuel hike of 40-60%.
We want fact and figure tats all. Dont lah be like Mr PM simply said all the fuel saving of $30B goes to projek-projek gajah putih! The government cant even convince the rakyat rational of spending hundreds of billions on ALL THESE SUPER MEGA CORRIDOR PROJECTS. Where are the projected return of investment if any? Where are the foreign investment if any? Investing few hundred billions with return of foreign investment of 800 millions? Please lah, dont make yourself a fool again and be a laughing stock to a 12 yr old kid.
Shabery failed miserably due to the following:-
i. Avoiding answers
ii. Starting personal attack
iii. Failed to explain government position for sudden hike
iv. Failed to give facts and figures
v. Wasting time talking about irrelevant history
vi. Repeating himself
Anwar failed to substantial a clear formulae of $1 cut on fuel price. But at least he touched on the main issues that affect most rakyat ie improvement on policies to reduce leakages, corruptions, cronism, wastages etc where major chuck of the fuel subsidies and taxpayers' money gone to.
So final result - Anwar Vs Shabery, 8:4. BN KO!
Bobster
Wow - never ever seen such a one-sided criticism of Rocky's biased comments. Rocky must be sitting pretty rocking in his rocking chair, with cigar in his hand and thinking - gee, my reverse psychology works like a charm...
ReplyDeleteIt is not a matter of overnite solution to reduce the standby capacity of IPP. It's must be renegotiated carefully. Government is bound to follow the power purchase agreement (PPA) which was sealed earlier. Then you need to pay compensation to IPP if you breach this contract. It is better to pay this money directly to rakyat nstead of compensating to IPP.
ReplyDeleteFurthermore, if you look at how much TNB is buying the power from IPP without having to invest a single cent for setting such capital intensive utility project. FYI, TNB is buying from one of the IPP at 15 sen per unit and how much they are selling to you? You better check your bill today!!! TNB enjoys the tariff revision every now and then but most of the IPPs do not have this clause. Most of the IPP PPA contract last for 21 years. The best thing to let the PPA expires and start renegotiating after that with TNB decides all terms and conditions if IPP want to continue operating. The first PPA's expiry date is in 2015.
I remember about last 14 years ago, Anwar came to officiate the opening ceremony for the power plant in Segari that belonged to MRCB before it was sold to Malakoff. You better ask Kadir Jasin, he was one of the board of directors in MRCB those days.
Logam
Anyway, ground sentiment is people lossing hope with BN. Najib be the next PM must be a joke.
ReplyDeleteQuestion whether Anwar will turn around one day when becoming PM following BN foot steps sucking the country dry is no more an issue. BN = No Hope High Risk of Bankrupt the country. Anwar = Risky too but with some hope of stopping the rot. So the answer is pretty simple.
Bobster
One of the commentors here wish that it was a debate with KJ against Anwar. It would be good for tv rating but that is it. Although in terms of portfolio it would be on par. Anwar as Penasihat PR and KJ as "Penasihat PM". He was there at the studio during the debate I was told.
ReplyDeleteSiapalah bodoh sangat tak setuju kalu minyak turun harga... topik yang Anuar ambil for debate nampak very cheap... why he's not focus on other thing that he think he can do if he become PM..like provide a free public transportation ke..he3
ReplyDeleteFor Shabey, u did a good job.. that the only way u can do to protect Pak lah decision...kesian kat kau..
Bro,
ReplyDeleteWhat if you are debating Anwar instead of Shabery?
Our take @ http://www.suaradu.com
Shabery kena kotakan kataa-katanya untuk letak jawatan. Daripada penerangannya malam tadi, saya tak nampak satu pun benda baru. Satu hujah Anwar pun dia tak boleh patahkan. Semua argument dia adalah argument lama. Apa ni Shabery, kasi malu sama kerajaan saja.
ReplyDeleteMohd Busa
Anwar was a victim in world of politic but he have very bad politician history. I do not want him to stand as our PM, Anuar's statement just not concrete as Shabery's speech. He put irrelevant point and act like "i am the coolest man standing".... But what Shabery just said actually not a personal, but the fact and the truth. Also Anwar cannot gave the correct point and pretended that he knows everything, but Shabery's speech just straight to the point, THE TRUTH IS REMAIN THE TRUTH, NO NEED HIDE OR COVER2!!. that's the way the leader all about, not just insinuate others. Maybe M'sian never know, Anwar's statement about Petronas profit actually contradicted with ledger CF the year of 2008 given by Dato' Sufiyan Idrus, the secretary of Petronas Human Resources Department. 'Good Luck' my baby 'A-Ibra'
ReplyDelete--etha--
As much as I was routing for Shabery, he didn't hold himself well against Anwar as I thought he was launching personal attacks when the rakyat wanted to hear facts and figures to the current issues, not history.
ReplyDeleteBro, the debate wasn't about having balls or being more open now then before. If those were the points of reference then I would give full points to Shabery. The topic was about the petrol prices and although somewhere in the govt, there may be somoene ho could have explained it better, Shabery left much to be desired on this score last night.
Bottomline, if I was watching through the eyes of the plain rakyat, I give last night to Anwar.
Well, majority of you thought DSAI won hands down. Maybe yes.. but I concur with Rocky this time round. I think rakyat wins on the following score:
ReplyDelete1. Rakyat get to see our politicians slugging it out, albeit for an hour. We hope of more to come.
2. Hope for TV3, RTM to start televising such programs. It would be educational and enlightening.
Lets not for one moment think of the below the belt jab by Cheeky or the cool composed DSAI. Whatever that was said, I think there is very little that we have not heard of. Its pretty common knowledge by now to most of us... well at least to me. What I wanted to know more from Cheeky is for him to explain what other stuff they would undertake to ensure we maintain competitive edge with such savings? He merely mentioned food security... I was like WTF!?
I expected Anwar to be more precise on sustaining the economy should he reduce the pump prices. If asked hard to choose a winner, on that night on that stage: Its DSAI. The biggest loser: I think that UUM VC should be sacked. He displayed utter inept knowledge of the whole issue and before he even asked his question, he has dug a hole and buried himself. Anwar just spade him with glee. Watis name? Something Kaldai?
To most of you guys here. When Zulkifli Sulong asked him about the infrastructure promises made after the 30sen increase. To be fair to Cheeky.. he did answer but in just a few words... he swiped at Zul for not understanding the rapid increase in crude oil price after their 30sen hike. But I guess many missed it. What irked me was not his answer but the way he answered it. He shows no regards nor respect for Zulkifli who asked him that question... at least from his body language.. then he goes about ranting about Venuzuela etc etc... point is he did answer but it was not the answer that we sought.
ReplyDeleteDear Rocky,
ReplyDeleteWith all the DAILY “Kindergarten” Political “Cat & Mouse” games & coming to the 15/07/08 DSAI & the Information Minister Debate, I have this to say :
With the Powers-that-be still in “Denial” & maintaining their Auto-Pilot Self-Destruct” mode path there is nothing much more that our new MPs, State Leaders, Aduns, Intellectuals, including DSAI, etc can do to change their “Paradigm”.
Their motto has been, is still & will always be “Heads I win, Tails you Lose!”
Maybe we should just give them more rope to hang themselves at every turn towards their Auto-Pilot “Self-Destruct” mode path !
1. The Topic is already biased ( insinuating / insulting, etc) & not an intelligent topic . Could it not be a specific topic on the ” Recent Fuel Hike introduced by the Government - Pros & Cons”
2. A Moderator has to be, and be seen as “Neutral” in any discussions / debate, prompt to keep the debate within the topic & to give a specific time limit for the participants to put forward their case with no interruptions, etc.
3. The Debaters will then be allowed to present their case within that time & the Moderator should use his / her discretion to allow the participants to complete their case instead of interrupions.
4. “Blood Sucker” mentioned….60% of the debate is off topic (Moderator’s job to prompt/lead them back into the topic) & the Moderator is biased, with preconceived thoughts to intimidate, insinuate & belittle Anwar right from the start.
5. One is a new Intellectual Minister (amongst the younger ones wanting to show & prove his mettle) who wants to be a Hero & the other a Veteran Minister, ex-Finance Minister & ex-DPM who has been ostracised, insulted, punished, jailed & still being punished by the Powers-that-be because they still feel threatened with his struggle to voice the rayaat’s plight.
6. Have we not learnt from the US Presidential debates or we “do not want to learn…or is it (by command!) premeditated to “hammer” this participant. ”
7. Under the circumstances I feel DSAI has more “Guts” than the Powers-that-be to take that “Challenge” and be counted to voice the rayaat’s plight on the unnecessary Fuel Hike with his views to offer an alternative by cutting the National “Wastages” on “White Elephant” projects, etc.
8. The audience & viewers can then form their own opinions.
9. “Who provided more RELATED facts on the debated topic” -
I would DEFINITELY say it is DSAI.
Don't go too hard on Shabery. He is the Menteri Penerangan after all. It's a tough job explaining the government, especially when it is not that smart.Mana yang gelap pun kena TERANGKAN. Tu lah maksud tersirat "Menteri Penerangan".
ReplyDeleteKalau basah benang nye pun, kena lah tegakkan.
Maybe he is instructed to divert the talk of oil price issue to defaming Anuar. Remember "Wag the Dog"?
Anuar was smart enough not to take the bait and proceeded to talk about the issues, which,I think why he is what he is, a good politician.
The talking is over, let's see some action because action speaks louder.
Quite disappointed with the standard to be honest...
ReplyDeleteFrom the opening of the debate.. you can see DSAI uses the word 'RAKYAT' and I don't even remember Shabery even mentioning anything with 'RAKYAT'in it..
ReplyDeleteTo me this shows how our government reacts toward us the 'RAKYAT'
"V"
I think both men did well in the debate. I'm no fan of Anwar, but I respect him for his oratory skills. What I approve was the two men backed their argument with facts. What I find unpleasant were the sniping, the sindiran and the personal attacks. Tsk tsk. I would like to see more debates like this in the future, and hopefully they will be carried on in a more gentlemanly and sporting fashion. Get to the point, and don't stray off topic by sniping and throwing pointless rhetoric. The people are getting tired of the rowdiness in the Parliament, and the considerably very civil debate that was showcased last night is a fresh change indeed.
ReplyDeleteHi,
ReplyDelete1. The debate is healthy to promote intellectual discourse among leading politicians to benefit the Rakyat.
2. The debate, moreover, shows that there are two different levels of intellectual capacity:
2.1. One focuses on the core issues: Sky-rocketing oil price and macroeconomic issues face by the Rakyat.
2.2. The other one focuses on a mixture of defensive arguments and personal-level attacks.
3. Step back and think for a moment. History clearly shows that any politicians, using personal attacks in public debates, will not emerge as winners. Worse, intelligent Rakyat will judge badly on their intellectual leadership to lead Malaysia.
4. Second look at the US presidential election. When both presidential candidates debate on their domestic economic issues, almost 99.98% their substance/ contents focused critically on the economic issues--rarely personal level attacks.
5. In summary, both debators demonstrated superb capability to engage in a lively healthy debate. They know that the debates would be watched by the intellectual audience in Malaysia, Asia, and worldwide.
6. Malaysia really needs more capable leaders , with the right mindset and behavior, who can bravely and publiclly debate on critical issues faced by the Rakyat, without engaging personal attacks.
7. I feel that personal attacks are the easiest but worst way for any debaters to demonstrate the levels of their intellectual leadership.
8. The intellectuals are judging the quality of the leaders Malaysia has today.
Rakyat is watching and will be watching.
Y., London, UK
OK.
ReplyDeleteAnwar wins.
But honestly, I'm still and never vote for him.
There are other major factors to be consider too.
I'm looking forward for debate on other issues. Such as NEP, inflation, governance, corruption etc.
rakyatsederhana
Shabery was terrible. Not once did he supply any facts, figures or arguments to support his points/personal attacks. Neither did he counter when Anwar replied on the IMF and IPP PPA costing issues. And worse still, he was foaming at the mouth like a rabid dog. This is the best BN has to offer?
ReplyDeleteMikey
But the real loser is the youth of Malaysia - if a person like Kardi can become a VC, there is no hope for us. We are all going to the dogs.....
Anwar was arrested today...at 12.35noon.
ReplyDeleteDetails in Malaysiakini.
I must say Anuar's presentation is better than Shabery. Shabery seems not sticking to the questions more often but going into personal attack.
ReplyDeleteLet hope we will have more of this civilized debates in Malaysia.
Vote at ChangeIsComingToMalaysia.blogspot.com
Shabery was just like a mad dog with white foam and saliva in the mouth, biting DSAI on personal issue during debate. What a loser!! He obviously not eligible to participate in this debate. Even school kids knows he is wasting the precious time to fight on his points. Next Umno candidate pls !! Shabery ? You are out !!!
ReplyDeleteWalao
DSAI is one smooth talker...one of the best!
ReplyDeleteWhy do I say that? Because not one of you buggers realised that Anwar was also resorting to personal attacks against Shabery. Like when he mentioned Shabery was a former S46 member.
The big difference here is that Shabery's attacks were repetitive and overt, while DSAI's was veiled very well.
But worse of all, both were repeating things already said before. Nothing new at all, with the exception of the fact that DSAI suddenly does a turnaround and says he would reduce by 50sen instead of reducing the price from the previous RM1.92, which was what was promised before election. Shabery caught this but did not press home the point enough.
So very disappointing except that it provided me with a few laughs!
My conclusions:
1. Shabery does have humungous cojones for taking on DSAI
2. Shabery needs to have tissue or handkerchief on hand when he does public speaking so that the sides of his mouth don't look like the foam on top of a latte/beer/stout
3. DSAI is a smooth operator, but still one I wouldn't trust to hold a one sen coin for me
4. Nordin Kardi is pathethic, and by association, UUM must be pathetic
5. No one won...whether Shabery, DSAI or us, the rakyat
Sincerely,
Disappointed Beyond All Belief
Like 90% of you
ReplyDeleteI'd Say anwar won
No more malaysian chinese
Call me malaysian
Mak saya kata, orang yang kuat bohong, mulut nya akan cair, boleh keluar buih...
ReplyDeleteAyah saya kata, asyik asyik cakap pasal minyak...dua dua tak de idea lain ke?
Saya kata - abih tu, dah tajuk debat pasal rege MINYAK turun...kena la cakap pasal minyak...
Adeh deh..
i think Shabery did not do the right homework...and, very bad for him for not realising that..
ReplyDeleteI am completely with Rocky that Shabery did very well on very difficult subject against one of the best orators (not necessarily the best worker) in Malaysia. Other politicians I reckon would be easily be on defensive and resorting to rumblings mumblings. Shabery did not. He had all the figures to support the points he were making.
ReplyDeleteIndeed Anwar or anyone else in the opposition clearly have the edge as they can fire and wire without having to worry of the consequences. Obviously Shabery answered very well and he did not mince his words. In fact it was Anwar who appeared defensive and falsely claimed that Shabery was aftering his personalities. I think Anwar was wrong.
We can now see that the future PM is on the making.
Welldone Shabery.
bercakap mengenai DSAI, ni info terbaru beliau...
ReplyDeleteANWAR DITAHAN POLIS BERTOPENG
Jul 16, 08 1:15pm
Polis menahan ketua umum PKR Datuk Seri Anwar Ibrahim di luar rumahnya di Segambut Dalam dan dibawa ke ibu pejabat polis Kuala Lumpur tengahari ini.
Beliau ditahan sekumpulan anggota polis, termasuk yang bertopeng dan berjaket - dipercayai Bahagian Jenayah Berat, kira-kira sejurus tiba dari Putrajaya selepas memberi keterangan kepada Badan Pencegah Rasuah (BPR) di Putrajaya.
Menurut peguam R Sivarasa, pihak polis telah menunggu kepulangan Anwar dan sebaik sahaja tiba, mereka membawa mantan timbalan perdana menteri itu, ke dalam kereta polis bercermin gelap dan membawanya ke IPK Kuala Lumpur.
Anwar tiba di IPK Kuala Lumpur jam 1.11 tengahari dengan dikawal oleh konvoi 15 kenderaan.
Manakala Datuk Seri Dr Wan Azizah Wan Ismail mengesahkan kepada pemberita di Parlimen bahawa Anwar telah ditahan.
Katanya, beliau menerima panggilan telefon dari Anwar yang mengesahkan bahawa beliau telah ditahan.
Anwar juga, katanya, memberitahu bahawa beliau dilayan secara kasar oleh anggota polis yang menahannya itu.
Wan Azizah berkata, Anwar memintanya pulang ke rumah untuk menenangkan anak-anaknya dan kemudiannya pergi ke pejabat polis terbabit.
Naib presiden PKR, Azmin Ali tiba kira-kira jam 1.26 tengahari, dan menyifatkan tindakan polis itu sebagai "tidak bertamadun" kerana Anwar telah mengesahkan akan datang.
Lagi pula, tambahnya, masa yang diberikan oleh polis sehingga jam 2 petang juga belum lagi tamat.
Beliau juga menyifatkan tindakan polis sebagai tidak wajar kerana Anwar dikeluarkan dari keretanya di tepi jalan utama.
Kira-kira 40 penyokong Anwar termasuk ahli-ahli parlimen Pakatan Rakyat kini berhimpun di IPK Kuala Lumpur.
Mereka termasuk Yusmadi Yusof, Zuraidi Kamaruddin, Dr Zulkifly Ahmad, Dr Hatta Ramli, Tian Chua serta Karpal Singh.
Wan Azizah pula tiba dengan anak perempuannya, Nurul Nuha pada jam 1.30 hari.
Difahamkan Anwar akan didakwa mengikut Seksyen 377C, Kanun Keseksaan. Dalam pindaan terbaru, peruntukan ini berbunyi seperti berikut: Di bawah seksyen ini, seseorang melakukan kesalahan jika dia membuat hubungan seks dengan orang lain dengan memasukkan sesuatu benda ke dalam faraj atau dubur orang yang satu lagi itu.
Jika sabit kesalahan, orang yang melakukan kesalahan itu boleh dihukum dengan hukuman pemenjaraan sehingga 20 tahun dan boleh juga dihukum sebat.
Kelihatan sepasukan anggota polis memantau pergerakan para penyokong yang berhimpun di situ. Turut kelihatan ialah sebuah trak meriam air.
Ahli Parlimen PKR, Wee Choo Keong, yang berada di dalam bangunan itu berkata, Wan Azizah dan dua anaknya - Nurul Izzah dan Nurul Nuha - dibenarkan menemui Anwar di tingkat tujuh pada kira-kira jam 2 petang.
Pada jam 2.35 petang, Wan Azizah dan anak-anaknya, serta peguam Sankara Nair muncul dari bangunan tersebut.
Pada jam 2.40 petang, ahli Parlimen DAP termasuk Lim Kit Siang, Tan Kok Wai, Fong Kui Lun dan Anthony Loke juga kelihatan meninggal dari bangunan tersebut.
Loke berkata, mereka hanya dibenarkan menunggu di kantin, dan semua ahli Parlimen Pakatan akan balik ke Parlimen untuk "membangkitkan isu tersebut".
Pada jam 2.50 petang, Ketua Angkatan Muda Keadilan (AMK), Shamsul Iskandar berkata, pihak polis sudah mula menyoalsiasat Anwar.
Katanya, perhimpunan sokongan kerdipan lilin akan diadakan di luar bangunan tersebut jika Anwar tidak dibebaskan hari ini.
Peguam Latheefa Koya pula berkata, Anwar ditahan sebagai suspek, tetapi pihak polis mahu merakamkan kenyataannya sebagai saksi mengikut Seksyen 112 Kanun Prosedur Jenayah.
"(Pada kira-kira jam 2.40 petang, peguam) Sulaiman Abdullah masuk bersama peguam Param Cumaraswamy. Anwar akan diwakili oleh tiga peguam termasuk Sulaiman. Param berada di situ sebagai tokoh antarabangsa," katanya.
(Param merupakan bekas pelapor Pertubuhan Bangsa-Bangsa Bersatu (PBB) bagi kebebasan hakim dan peguam)
people,
ReplyDeletewah! its all very easy for us to comment after the debate.You think its easy to stand up there and to answer impromptu questions? Credit to both especially the one on the left,as he stuck to the topic. I cant imagine myself to be up there and talk,thats why i cant comment much. Just now i try myself with my kid,try to imitate,but no.it was not easy people.
It was fun though sitting and drinking coffee in the bistro while watching the debate on tele.
Can we have more of this?Forget AI,AF,G. This is fun to watch.
wtf.
it was clear to see who focused on the topic and who detracted. Shabery and his team were clearly on a mission to personally attack Anwar, and on more than three ocassions he went on a diatribe without addressing questions posed to him.
ReplyDeleteOn the contrary, Anwar did his research well. he was factual, gave credible sources for his statements and made strong arguments for his propositions. any primary school stundent could discren who the crony and who the statesman was.
lets have more such debates, because in the final analysis, the rakyat wins when the unshackled voice of the rakyat is spoken.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI have to disagree with the Shabery-bashers.
ReplyDeleteI agree that it was unprofessional of Shabery to conduct personal attacks, but do not forget that Anwar was also not very subtly campaigning for himself throughout the debate-
all that talk about lowering the prices 'esok', about being elected.
If all these posters are against Shabery for using personal attacks and 'not sticking to the topic' I suggest they also take a look at how Anwar veered off-track by persistently bringing up the topic of his campaign.
I agree that Shabery went too far in the personal attacks- but contrary to what others have said I think what he lacks is ELABORATION and not VALID POINTS. He did point out rather accurately that we should also consider WHERE the subsidy is going- to the rich or to the poor? But he stopped there and did not further persist, which I suppose is where he failed.
Either way, BOTH debaters did attempt to tweak the debate in their own favour and by no means did the both of them stick completely to the topic.
Regard DSAI arrested today,is police and rookies CID director over react or kiasu?I have my say in my blog..
ReplyDeleteI am no fan of Anwar and still have reservations about him but he has good points and very professional...And that Shabery fellow..He's nothing but an idiot.
ReplyDeleterock,
ReplyDeletethe debate is rock but nordin kardin is totally suck
Shabery was clueless akin to the government that he represents.
ReplyDeleteHis personal jibes at DSAI clearly points to the fact that he didn't do his homework. Don't expect any new vision or for that matter any from his masters in that vein.
All he could do was to remain defensive with a modicum of personal jibes and red-herrings being thrown in.
Tell them that they are all operating at the fire-fighting mode, and that would leave them wondering without any clue as to what on earth are you really trying to say.
They are clueless on how to get out from the current mess that they unknowingly have created themselves.
raksaman
amaran:
ReplyDeletePENYAKIT LEMBU GILA @JE MELANDA
tanda awal : mulut berbuih
langkah pencegahan:jauhi Menteri Gelap
keterangan lanjut:hubungi the next UUM VC (Sama bebal)
This anwar he is a bloody hypocrit. he says 50sen reduction. thats a joke. isnt that still an increase from the previous price.
ReplyDeleteAnwar is just a schemer to trick people to vote for him.
Shabery did well I think. Havent heard of this guy before but he debated well to protect our national interest.
Anwar with his sarcastic sound and Indonesian intonation. i hate it.
Never let this Anwar become PM. I dont trust him.
Anwar compares Malaysia to Somalia and Zimbabwee. Man, he is putting down on my country. And he is not interested to put us up with the good nation like Finland and Norway.
Anyway, there are few point should be taken by the government. IPP is over subsidized. So, something needs to be done.
This anwar is only interested to bankrupt Malaysia.
Daripada debat semalam, adalah sangat jelas kepada rakyat seperti saya, memahami beberapa perkara.
ReplyDeletesatu : bukan semua ahli-ahli parlimen daripada BN betul-betul memahami dasar BN menaikkan harga minyak bahkan semua konsep atau perancangan yang dibentangkan oleh bos mereka. sangat jelas . itulah sebab menteri penerangan kita itu tidak dapat jawab soalan dengan betul, malah hanya hafalkan apa yang disediakan oleh bos atau unit mereka.
Kedua : Mereka tidak tahu menengar atau tidak mahu menengar. Bila ditujukan soalan yang sesuai, wakil BN itu langsung tidak menjawab dengan tajuk yang ditujui. Ini jelas menunjukkan BN memang tidak mahu dengar apa yang rakyat suarakan.Mereka hanya pentingkan apa yang mereka mahu lakukan dan ME-munasabah-KAN kerja-kerja mereka.
ketiga : BN memang tidak tahu mentadbir Negara dengan baik, mereka tidak mencari jalan yang betul-betul memanfaatkan rakyat. mereka hanya ikut jalan yang senang. mereka suka cari alasan, mereka suka buat "statement", mereka ingat mereka sangat bijak dan tidak perlu nasihat daripada pakar-pakar.
Ke empat : Semangat BN yang kukuh. Apa yang penting bagi mereka dalam BN adalah kepentingan parti BN. bukan rakyat yang diutamakan. Ini jelas ditunjukkan apabila ahli-ahli parlimen yang hadir pada debat ini mengatakan wakil mereka menbentangkan hujah yang bernas dan fakta yang dibentangkan oleh DSAI tidak, mereka langsung tidak mempertimbangkan kemungkinan penyelesaian yang dicadangkan oleh DSAI, ini adalah tidak wajah memandangkan mereka adalah wakil rakyat, dimana tanggungjawab mereka adalah mencari jalan untuk membantu rakyat menguruskan Negara.
Nordin Kardi - telah menunjukkan tanda-tanya dalam hati saya betulkah dia seorang yang berkaliber dan bijaksana??? inilah sebab kenapa Universiti kita tidak di-senaraikan dalam tangga 100 yang teratas di dunia walaupun kita mempunyai pelajar-pelajar yang baik dan cerdik.
Foo
I look at it this way.
ReplyDeleteShabery is just like his master,
No material and not qualified to participate in last night debate.
Yet, cabinet minister and his gang commended and feeling proud on his performance.
If this is the case of not responding to reality on this nation oil crisis, is a gone case for the nation.
Survey on the street on last night debate, feedback is "S 2 S". (SHAME TO SHABERY)
Mostly all of you are anuar's bias. Apa yang dicakap anuar tu pun semua nya tak ada menerangkan formula sepenuhnya, apa yang di cakapnya " setakat hari ini" do you think he can do it? shittttt
ReplyDeletematrempit
The UMNO govt has been lying to the rakyat. They say the rising oil prices is a global problem and they have to raise the pump prices as in other countries.
ReplyDeleteThe Petronas boss Hassan Merican was quoted in Star Biz today "its dangerous to be dependent only on Petronas. What if oil prices drop? To sustain payments will be a challenge"
The govt needs high oil prices to reap the windfall income. If the oil prices were to fall we would be in deep shit. The govt even with the high oil income needs to remove oil subsidy.
As long as we are a net oil exporter high oil prices is good for us. We must follow Norway and invest the income PROPERLY for future generations.
Because of corruption the NEP target can never be fulfilled.
We Malays are just as capable as the rest of the world. Petronas which is a Bumi company is a world class company. Just put the right people at the top posts and stop govt interference and corruption, the rakyat will be better off.
Pissed off
All things considered, I say ... 50-50 lah. Well, maybe Anwar 55, Cheek 45 ... but that Nordin fella ... alamak ... -50!
ReplyDeleteAs for the latest news of Anwar's arrest for sodomy again, I only have this to say to our PM. The entire WORLD is watching, so please don't make a mockery out of our system. Everyone is laughing at us now. Please don't let the police, who is under you, make a mockery out of us Malaysians. Is this the Malaysian way of handling political opponents? Certainly not the smartest way.
Shabery should have done better. There were a lot of points that Anwar raised which could be easily answered.
ReplyDeleteAs a nation, our oil reserve don’t even put us in the top 15. However, Petronas, with its investment in overseas, is ranked in the top 15 oil producer in the world, bigger than Shell or Conoco. Petronas has develop itself to be a global player and use its investment prudently to take it to such a position. If we were to compare correctly, we just have to look across the sea to our neighbour Indonesia. They had a bigger oil reserve than Malaysia, but alas Pertamina is nowhere near Petronas, and Indonesia has ended up as an oil exporter. Anwar is taking a gamble on the fact that discovery of more oil field can lengthen the position of Malaysia as a net exporter. Is it prudent to change Petronas reinvestment policy at this point of time? It is a gamble, which would lead to short term benefit to rakyat (certain) but at a cost for the future.
I don’t understand Anwar’s calculation on RM3 billion as compared to the RM5 billion rebate that the government is giving. Based on the math, that translate to 200 liters per vehicle (msia has about 7.5m cars), which suggest he would have to plough more from the IPPs.
Shabery should also highlight per capita income is very misleading -we should look at purchasing power instead and if I’m not mistaken Msia is ranked 30+ while Norway is 40+. It might have 10 times capita income, but it’s also 10x more expensive to live there.
The second part is Shabery should have challenged Anwar on redistribution of Petronas wealth. The idea of having a ’subsidised’ price provide false economy to the public, and in now way curb excess usage. It is far better to redirect the fund directly to the poor. (I am not saying that the govt does this well -in fact its poor at it, but this is a better method than subsidising price). This should also involves infrastucture spend on public transportation. It is also good fiscal policy to spend more money during recessionary periods to boost the economy (Keynes), not to mention the economic multiplier that it creates.
It is true that oil prices creates inflationary pressure, but we have been artificially insulated all these while prices are going up. This had led to many imprudent spending patterns (just look at the number of single occupancy vehicles whilst usage of public transport is very minimal - for info companies like Rapid KL has huge fleet, but utilisation is far from breaking even), including over-gearing (credit card debt, etc).
One valid point from Anwar is on the excess power that TNB has to take on from Gen Zero IPPs, which are at the same time sold fuel at a discounted rate. However, this involve changing contracts that were made, which would change debt ratings, and put serious issue on msian contract stability (and our foreign investment). But at the same time, Anwar should have lambasted the govt on how it distribute contracts, whether we are getting our money worth for all the savings and petronas dividend we receive. That I think Shabery can’t asnwer!.
My point on the whole thing is whilst Anwar is a good speaker, Shabery came nowhere near in challenging any of his points. I thought he would have come well equipped, since most of the points Anwar raised have been mentioned again and again before and could easily been strike off.
I am not pro government - but am strongly for facts and truth!
maf
Transkrip penuh depat Shabery dan Anwar boleh didapati di
ReplyDeletehttp://waksapu.blogspot.com/
Jom komen
This Shabery Cheek fellow almost makes me vomit while i am having dinner watching the Debat.
ReplyDeleteWhy? His 'air lior basi'-lah throughout the debate.
Malu-lah sikit pada penonton.
You make a fool of yourself dear minister.
How old was SC when Petronas came to town? Is he aware of the Joint-Venture agreement that was done in 1976? SC needs to brush up on his general knowledge, and of course Economics. And SC, you dont need your mother to tell you this... Dont hit below the belt! For a fleeting moment, I thought the debat was a re-enactment of some 60's drama (malaysian style) with lots of "sindir2an", perli, cubit2. So low! By the way, how much was paid out to the noisy rempits?
ReplyDeleteMatthews
How old was SC when Petronas came to town? Is he aware of the Joint-Venture agreement that was done in 1976? SC needs to brush up on his general knowledge, and of course Economics. And SC, you dont need your mother to tell you this... Dont hit below the belt! For a fleeting moment, I thought the debat was a re-enactment of some 60's drama (malaysian style) with lots of "sindir2an", perli, cubit2. So low! By the way, how much was paid out to the noisy rempits?
ReplyDeleteMatthews
We rakyat, still lagi the losser!!
ReplyDeleteKesian kawan aku,
Dia penjaja kacang rebus pakai motor.Pagi tadi mula jumpa aku,tau ape dia tanya?
" Eh semalam kerajaan dah turunkan minyak 50sen ke" Dia takde peluang langsung nak dengar debate. Semalam dia menjaja kacang rebus kat pasar malam.
Aku nak terangkan kat dia, aku puntak tahu apa ke nama Berok IPP tu (Institusi Perabih Pitih ).
DSAI? Dia dah tercapai dah hasrat lama tak masuk TV.Dan paling kelakar anak aku ambil kain sapu tangan kesat TV.
Takpe lah kawan meh aku tolongmu basuh kacang !!
** nota: Debate masih lagi berlangsung antara Bro Rocky(step on popularity blogger) dengan blogger kutu rayau.
Kashsul Wordrock
We rakyat, still lagi the losser!!
ReplyDeleteKesian kawan aku,
Dia penjaja kacang rebus pakai motor.Pagi tadi mula jumpa aku,tau ape dia tanya?
" Eh semalam kerajaan dah turunkan minyak 50sen ke" Dia takde peluang langsung nak dengar debate. Semalam dia menjaja kacang rebus kat pasar malam.
Aku nak terangkan kat dia, aku puntak tahu apa ke nama Berok IPP tu (Institusi Perabih Pitih ).
DSAI? Dia dah tercapai dah hasrat lama tak masuk TV.Dan paling kelakar anak aku ambil kain sapu tangan kesat TV.
Takpe lah kawan meh aku tolongmu basuh kacang !!
** nota: Debate masih lagi berlangsung antara Bro Rocky(step on popularity blogger) dengan blogger kutu rayau.
Kashsul Wordrock
Beberapa rumusan menurut pandangan LFS daripada sesi debat tersebut iaitu:
ReplyDelete1. Kedangkalan, kebodohan, tidak profesional, tidak matang dan kebudak-budakan adalah sifat yang telah ditunjukkan oleh Shabery Cheek (SC).
2. SC adalah merupakan contoh kualiti yang dipilih oleh Pak Lah di dalam barisan kabinetnya. Inilah kualiti barisan menteri yang ada di negara kita di bawah pentadbiran Pak Lah. Ini tidak menghairankan kerana Pak lah sendiri tidak mempunyai kapasiti intelek yang setaraf malah yang jauh kebelakang jika ingin dibandingkan dengan tokoh-tokoh seperti Tun Mahathir, DSAI, dan Tun Musa Hitam.....baca seterusnya
http://fikirlahsendiri.blogspot.com
Rox and debutante debater... well said. I agree.
ReplyDeleteIt's not about who wins or loses. It's about facts being laid down on the table for us. Shame about Shabery's unsportsmanlike show though. It would have been so much better without the personal attacks.
He was initially with PAS then lompat to Semangat 46 and lompat again to UMNO. Therefore master of lompat.....
ReplyDeleteihatepolice
Shabery kalah KO..I don't like anwar at all but the gov just gave him one great moment on TV just because:
ReplyDelete1. Allowing the debate shown live on national TV.
2. Getting a looser like Shabery to go against Anwar..Homework? Heard of that word before Shabery?
Bro Bru, check out my comment on http://hardyarbi.blogspot.com
Salam Rocky,
ReplyDeleteIt seems that most of the readers are PR fans, especially PKR and Anwar die-hard fans. Whoever touch their grand-idol even a little bit will be kickedSCYG hard. All opinions must be in line with what they think or believe.
This is ridiculous! We can't even have our own thinking and opinions. Isn't it ironic that the response and reactions are coming from the party that championing freedom of expression and democracy?
Their party loyalists and die-hard fans should know that not everybody agree with their party and shared whatever their beliefs are.
Politics is NOT religion, even though some party like the turban-party believe so! So, PR should stop thinking that everyone on their side and want to push down their ideas and beliefs down our throat!
persoalannya sekarang tajuk debat itu ialah hari ini tubuh kerajaan esok harga minyak turun, bukannye wajarkah Anwar Ibrahim mnjd PM dan sebagainye.sepatutnye Shabery menegakkan dasar2 kerajan dan memberi bukti perolehan hasil dari kenaikan minyak dan penstrukturan semula subsidi.tetapi die tidak memilih sebigitu sebaliknye hujah-hujah die lebih kepada mempersoalkan kewibawaan Anwar sebagai seorg pemimpin.seharusnye die harus professional dan tidak seharusnye menyentuh hal peribadi.saya bukanlah penyokong Anwar tp bg saya sekurang2nye Anwar mempunyai idea untuk tidak menaikkan harga minyak secara mengejut dan begitu mendadak seperti yang di buat oleh kerajaan.saya sering tertanya-tanya kenapa wakil-wakil kerajaan suke berkata "die bukannye pemimpin..bolehla nak cakap ape.."kate-kate seolah-olah tidak melambangkan kredibiliti seorang pemimpin.sebagai seorang pemimpin seharusnye bersiap sedia dengan apa juga soalan pandangan dan kritikan dan mampu memberi penjelasan dalam menegakkan ape yang dilakukan oleh kerajaan..come on kerajaan..you all must wake up..
ReplyDeleteit's all DSAI.. Why??
ReplyDelete1. DSAI stick to the topic while SC focusing on attack DSAI's past.
2. Everytime the questions to SC, i see he didn't answer the question but instead compared Malaysia to Venezuela & Iran.
3. Didn't SC had problem with hearing? DSAI keep telling that the money keep by Petronas will not be touched but only manage the money given to the government.
4. The winner was decided when SC keep reminded audience that the nations with low price have higher inflation. Do SC didn't have even basic economical?
I hope for the next debate, brings at least 2nd Finance Minister to debate or if Pak Lah brave enough to meet DSAI, bring it on..
Yep! Anwar shafted Min of Info alright. He spread both "cheeks" and sniggered "Your ASS iz Mine!!" Hahahahaha!
ReplyDeleteTippy4bunghole
Kepada mereka yang cakap Anwar tu kononnya "melawan" Tun Razak... Tun Razak pun bukan 100% betul. Mari kita lihat dan kaji apa sebabnya ini berlaku... semua orang politik harus dipertimbangkan berdasarkan apa yang mereka lakukan, bukan berdasarkan 'aura' mereka. Kitak kenak tengok betoi betoi kekuatan dan kelemahan setiap pamimpin-pamimipin... tak kira pembangkang atau tokoh-tokoh BN sendiri, yang baru dan yang lama...
ReplyDeleteI am proud that Shabery did a fairly good debate. As for Anwar, Im surprised to so many sided on his performance. This anwar is a schemer. 50sen reduce, i thought he wanted it as cheap as before the rise. 50sen reduction still is a rise. He is using his tricks in manipulating people.
ReplyDeleteAnd Anwar putting us as low as Somalia and Zimbabwee, grow up anwar. And you guys support someone who put us down like that. What is wrong as trying to use the best practices of Norway and Finland. And Norway is not 10times higher income per capita. Anwar is overexaggerating. By the way, for those who have been to Finland, people there pay so high tax and high petrol and salary is not to say so much (ok better than malaysia) but still they can live with it. Why cant we train ourself to be better ofcourse government needs to put in place the proper system.
In a world of high oil prices, most countries are trying to save on energy. But not anwar. He just wants to spend all our resource and nothing for our children. To me, anwar is behaving not in the interest of the country but on his mere self.
And by the way, its anwar who is attacking Shabery more. The whole attack on the high oil price was anwar initiative so dont say that Shabery have no rights to attack on Anwar. Its a debate, professional debate. So 2 THUMBS UP for Shabery. Anwar has so much sly in the way he talks and sarcasm. I hate it. Furthermore, his accent is so Indon as he will turn our country to Indon country.
I am overall surprised by Shabery performance. First time I saw him in action. Much better than the previous Info Minister. Keep it up and I hope for all the success in managing our difficult country.
By the way, we have to do something about IPP. This subsidy we cant ignore and is wasting, so this is one action point for the government. I am against the subsidy for profiteering certain minority groups.
Also, the 2 panelist are nonsense. Cant they get better ones.
I hope Anwar never becomes our PM. He is all about himself. All you people seems to be tricked by Anwar. Great job anwar!
- Concerned Malaysian
Bro,
ReplyDeletei watched shabery once on tv1 with Dr. Hassan Ali. he looked stupid and talked rubbish.like a nerd trying to recall school notes.
DSAI really makes him look like junk rubbish this time. what a stupid 'misinformation' minister. unbelievable!!
spek mata je lawa, akai tadak!
This video clip best describe BN/UMNO leaders ...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYaqtcaOSGM
Ini membuktikan dasar keterbukaan kerajaan memang ada, berbanding pada zama TDM dulu. Tetapi jangan ruang2 atau kelonggaran untuk bersuara sebegini disalah gunakan..
ReplyDeleteTapi Anwar punya plan pun macam tak kukuh sangat pun, dok sibuk ulang2 kesengsaraan rakyat je..
Result of the rebate:-
ReplyDeleteWho's the winner?
No winner except lossers ie. RAKYAT MALAYSIA.
Hello, FYI our MR PM only allocated less than RM2 Billion for public transportation out of $280 Billion allocated for 9MP.
5 yrs down the road when fuel price sky rockets to unimaginable level, federal roads getting even more jam packed with vehicles, public transportation fallen apart due to poor maintenance and no extension plan, country becoming net importer, only then the whole country will wake up from slumberland realising Mr PM has put the whole country in sleeping mode and neglected the most basic but critical criteria for developed nation ie PUBLIC TRANSPORT SYSTEM. By that time it's too late cause no more spare cash. All have been squndered off in the process of building white elephants.
Vision 2020 remains just a wet dream after all.
Bobster
Sebetulnya, Shabery bukan bercakap atas modal dia sendiri. Dia juga membawa mesej kepimpinan BN. Tetnulah ada input-input yang diminta dia cakap. Rasanya ramai yang bagi input termasuklah ketua-ketua dia. Tapi itu pun, terkangkang. Nampak sangat BN tak ada modal. Logiknya, takkan mereka nak biarkan Shabery cakap suka hati saja. Ini maruh kerajaan dan BN. Betul tak. Oleh itu, lain kali kalau kail sejengkal jangan lautan dalam henda duga.
ReplyDeleteSubha
I have to disagree with you there, Bro - Cheek as expected showed his inexperience by attacking anwar and going off topic in doing so several times. He was arrogant and tried to defend the indefensible. His tan sri friend was an embarrasment.
ReplyDeleteAnwar on the other hand was cool and articulate the issues well in the the face of govt supporters' dog howls. He did so well that I won't be surprised if he is arrested for insulting the govt
school debater
rock, dato shabery cheek looked like a complete fool against anwar. he did say (the day after) he didnt resort to character-attack, but that was exactly what he did throughout the debate. he didnt have points, couldnt counter attack except to go on and on and on about what anwar did when he was a dpm/finance minister. anwar said not to use petronas' money but money given to the govt by petronas. work on savings etc etc. sabery cheek went on and on and on speaking about petronas again and again. then like a child he said to anwar "yeah look at you when you did this, when you did that.. " what? for god sake, debate the bloody topic-lah. i'm neither for anwar nor petronas' money but i honestly think shabery was a complete idiot. soalan pun tak paham nak head the communication/info ministry.
ReplyDelete-somedudette-
(heha): Hey, how about dsai VS kj
ReplyDeletein english, i no good to faham bm
lah ! bila boleh ah !
KJ, berani kah !????????????
i heard mawi also did not turn up at bukit aman this morning to explain about his police uniform incident. i wonder when is the igp going to send the same team - balaclava-clad and all - to his house to 'pick' him up.
ReplyDeletearen
Again we were fooled by those fools (Anwar + Shabby Chick).
ReplyDeleteDo you guys know that Shabby + Anwar are buddies? Anwar has been seen 'lepaking' at Shabby's weekend house in Janda Baik once too many times???
Again, it was a good show. A good show for fools.
You guys deserve it.
aku nak tahu jugak...apasal si anwar tak jawap soalan pasal bagi subsidi minyak tu bukan untuk petronas je, tapi untuk company luar negara sekali macam shell ngan exxon mobil tu... kenapa tak naik kan je minyak ikut market rate pastu bagi rebate untuk semua rakyat ...dapat laa rakyat RM 2-3 juta sebulan dari bagi subsidi kat company luar tuh...
ReplyDeletei love it love it love it....
ReplyDeleteYou de man, lah, Rocky.
how you are able to elicit diverse comments, diverse sentiments, and possibly NOBODY is right about you, your sentiments, or your political predilection.
They whack you when you TRY to be neutral, exhorting you TO TAKE SIDES!
can you beat that?
if you sound anywhere near "siding" Shabery (BN), they whack the daylights out of you.
which means...YOU MUST BE ON ANWAR'S SIDE for you to be worth your salt as a blogger!
what crap is that!
Some of these people have claimed ownership over you-lah.
YOU MUST be critical, and you must attack the BN, then you are FAIR...howzzat???
so comical.
stay cool, rocky!
i have been following your blog and i DON'T think you have changed!
let's hope for another possible with the same format but with more quality in sense of the contents.
ReplyDeletethe debaters also must be on the same level.before this actually the "fight" is not enough.
hope that Pak Lah will grant us that. :)
I'm worried...having a STUPID minister to administer our country... I am more worried some people will still support STUPID BN minister who will put out nation in jeorpardy...
ReplyDeletesoalan bocor boleh gagal??? memang HP6 punya gomen
ReplyDelete-3c sk kelepa sawit-
(heha) : rock dear, is mine the 318th !? which has the MOST responses ? can beat that chedet one ah ?
ReplyDelete(heha): rocky, is this the 319th ?
ReplyDeletegood night !
Shabery is Truly a Big Joker! Anwar really did a great job, and this is truly a great historic debate.
ReplyDelete