Tuesday, May 11, 2010

With Consent, Without Consent

Anwar Ibrahim's Sodomy II trial is still the most-read story on The Malay Mail's website. That's 3 days in running. People are interested and they are following the case closely. First it was plastic object, then it's mandi junub, and today Karpal Singh underscores a contradiction in the charge levelled against his client, the former DPM. Saiful, the accuser, said he was sodomized by Anwar without his consent while he police did not state so; therefore, the buggery is assumed to have taken place with consent.

What's the difference? The Malay Mail's story Drop Charge if Contradiction valid, says Karpal merely reports the details of the trial.

Shamsul Yunus the blogger takes the discussion a wee deeper in If Consent is Irrelevant, why is Consent so Important?



  1. Anonymous6:29 pm

    babi asked him to come, drop his pants & bend over...

    he answer gleefully, ok! bos! like this ke?

    but now he says, no consent!

    wonder who else got a piece of his pantat... najis? his loving unkle??? lol!!!

  2. Anonymous6:34 pm

    Rosmah : Rocky,kasi kaw kaw sama Anwar !!

    Rocky : ok boss , I akan pasti Anwar masuk balik Sg.Buloh dan I akan spin cerita tu kaw kaw !!

    Rosmah : good boy !!

  3. "If Consent is Irrelevant, why is Consent so Important?"

    Obviously Karpal is trying to prove Saiful is a liar and an unreliable witness. Before the trial all the talk was about non-consensual sex. Now Saiful's implying or testified "in camera" that he went in as a willing partner!!

    Coupled with that statement that he only "ada mandi sedikit saja tapi tidak cuci habis" and that he did not go to the big toilet or bathe/shower for a couple of days, Karpal will move for Saiful's impeachment.

    If the judger accepts the impeachment charges, the SG's case will fall part because that will also imply that Saiful was involved in a conspiracy of sorts!!

    we are all of 1 race, the Human Race

  4. Anonymous6:43 pm

    Sometime he gian the time, ada konsent la!

    Sometime he tak gian the time, no konsent la!

    And wat so susah to paham!

  5. hurray for the Malay mail!

    I can only read Malay Mail online.
    I figure I'm one of those hitting the Anwar trial on your website.

    Keep the news rolling....


  6. Dato' and everybody else who are following this trial must read the transcripts of the sodomy trial in: http://malaysianstory.wordpress.com/

    In the transcript the Prosecutor said that "There is no difference between in s377B and 377C, anal intercourse is an offence with or without consent. It does not provides difference offence, only prescribed enhanced penalty. If without consent, it attracts heavier penalty. Have to prove penetration."

    I think in layman's terms it means samada rela atau dipaksa jika hubungan seks luar tabii berlaku maka ia sudah menjadi satu kesalahan. Jika di buat dengan paksa maka hukuman dijatuhkan lagi beratlah. Walaubagaimanapun Pendakwa mesti terlebih dahulu membuktikan bahawa zakar Anwar telah dimasukkan kedalam dubur Saiful.

    I believed that this case have been thoroughly investigated by the Police besides having Saiful's statement which must be corroborated with forensic and clinical evidences and the AG's chambers will have spent many hours discussing on the charge against Anwar. AG sure tak lepas pandang.

    I think its not so much about dropping the charge if statement by Saiful is contradictory to the existing charge, its more like Karpal Singh is asking that the charge be modified to that of forced sodomy which means Anwar will get a more enhanced sentencing if found guilty for inserting his penis into Saiful's anus which is the basic ingredient of the crime?

    Just wondering what is Karpal Singh up to now.

  7. Apa yang penting, kronologi perbicaan mengesahkan ada berlaku liwat???

    Jika itu berlaku, Anwar adalah pembohong (sebelum ini menafikannya) dan sumpah laknat Saiful terus berkesan dan relevan ke atas Anwar.

    Secara fizikal, masuk ke tak masuk ke jel Sg Buluh sudah tidak penting.

  8. drMpower7:44 pm

    it seems rocky is not spared on conspiracy.

    this is infact look like better than the infamous Deep Throat back in the 1970s. Yes, i didnt typo on that. Deep Throat.

    karpal is good. but he is good at that as much as tony blair is good at spotting those WMD.

    pigs fly.

    he went on to picture that boy as tidak berakhlak or whatever he can say. surely he does not know much about wudhu', sembahyang, or Allah. if he knows that much, he must have been mohamad kerpala.

    i dont know what singh's god is or are, but i am pretty sure he sit there permanently for a reason.

    listen to ur god, karpal.

  9. Anonymous7:47 pm

    Sodomy II...

    One lousy script, only one 3rd rated supporting actor, direktor also very green ( that mamak direktor in SI still the best )...

    Seems likely the producer got to throw out Sodomy II...

    and start Sodomy III... brader anwar vs starlet

    then Sodomy IV... brader vs goat

    then Sodomy V... by which the main actor will be 80, he vs a rubber doll.

  10. Anonymous8:00 pm

    now we know why the pantat towers story was of interest to some pro bn bloggers....he he he

  11. Anonymous8:13 pm

    With or without consent does not matter b'coz act of sodomy is illegal in this country.

  12. Anonymous8:35 pm


    Of course there is a BIG difference between consent and no consent.

    If there is no consent, then it is against the law of Physics that a 65 old man can rape a strong 20+ years old adult. No one in the right mind would believe it. Even if DSAI goes into jail.

    Then there is the issue of the charges. If it is not consensual, why would the charges be consensual. Is it to give DSAI a more lenient punishment? I don't think so......

    I think it is quite difficult for you to spin the story....for a dumb person like this Shamsul chap, maybe he will believe...


  13. Anonymous8:51 pm

    It's not Karpal wants heavier penalty for his client,instead he wants 377C is because under that charge pendakwa have to prove both


    the 2nd part is difficult to prove, therefore Anwar can escape the charge.

    under 377B only have to prove Penetration.

    Saiful is very clever, that why he says "...tak cuci habis".

    that's the scariest part to Anwar's team of lawyer..

    if he didn't say that..habislah bukti "penetration"

  14. Why is Shamsul Yunus implying that Karpal is suggesting that Anwar be tried for a more heinous crime? He is not smart at all. And he gave the analogy that if a girl says she consented to having sex with an adult, the adult still faces rape because it is statutory rape
    And he ask the hypothetical question --
    If the girl says she did not consent to having sex with an adult, does that make the rape more acceptable?
    Surely this blogger is not thinking at all or just plain prejudice. Any right thinking judge would surely strike out any contradicting charge, the minute an accuser flip-flops on the accusation. Once you said you are raped, you just stick to it. If the accusation changes to consensual sex, then the case gets thrown out because of the conflict statements.The court shouldn't have to take into account whether the sex actually happens or not, the credibility of the accuser is at stake here!

  15. Anonymous9:35 pm

    Jadi Karpal lawyer Anwar Ibrahim ni MENGAKU Anwar meliwat Saiful!

    Kalau sekadar rela atau tak rela tak penting.

    Aku tahu aku tak rela di pimpin PELIWAT!

    Rakyat Malaysia.

  16. Anonymous9:45 pm

    Woi, Kluangman

    "sumpah laknat Saiful terus berkesan dan relevan ke atas Anwar"

    hahahaha...bodohnya si kluangman ni !! ciss, Allah sudah kasi tahu kluangman confirm Anwar akan kena sumpah laknat ke ???

    Woi,kluangman baik tukar saje nama ke Caveman !!!

    memang joker la dia ni !!!

  17. Anonymous10:05 pm

    Lets say Saiful consented, so what? A DeFucto leader, is fucking an ash hole. And he was a Muslim opps sorry A Well Known Muslim Scholar. BABI should lodge a police report saying that it was consented Anal Intercourse and he be a free man also no problem.
    Lots of Muslim also don't know exactly what is Mandi junub. There is no explaination on Mandi junub other then natural sexual intercourse. For anal sex the is no explanation at all because Islamic teacher strictly prohibited it.

    The game just started and it will be more interesting when Anwar is in the stand. Lets have a live telecast and let the Rakyat be the witness. Ada Berani?

    BABI just admit that it was a consentual act and the whole story finish. Don't waste our tax payer money. Technically he might be a free man but conscience wise he is considered as a BASTARD.

    Anyway seems that his so called Bodyguard also very handsome la.

    By Amazing Wife SHIT cock sucker

  18. rationale is simple you bollocks. Where is the rule of law here? Rule by man say you Rocky?

    If it is without consent, then if 377C used, prosecution need to prove consent; and if 377B is used, prosecution need not prove consent. Contrary to what some stupid bloggers have wrote, both alternatives need to prove the element of penetration. If sodomy can be proved without penetration, it is called Malaysia Boleh Act 2010 (MBA 2010), which is an unwritten new law.

  19. Anonymous10:55 pm

    Sorry I don't read the Malay Mail, I will never touch it. is haram!

  20. Anonymous2:36 am

    are u stupid??

    if someone is charged under wrong things, then they can be let go!!

    bodoh punya fake datuk!

  21. aiyah...Rocky so naive or pretend to be stupid?
    Consent means.."ok...do it...I give permission" means no class la.
    How can one give permission ...next moment report he was raped?
    The other means...'no no no...cannot....AIYOH!! ALAMAK...HELP!..sakit nya....bla bla bla"
    After that go to report to police he was raped.
    Not no..he did not go to the police..he went to see Najib...and then 4 days later..reported he was raped.
    I also can imagine the 4 days later is for Saiful to check things up..whether the millions were received...consult things with his Aunties nd Uncles...before making the final decision to go ahead with the stage show....once on....cannot withdraw.
    And after few years....you can see Saiful can answer questions from Karpal with more confidence.
    People take few days to be trained..but UMNO B idiots need few months to be trained to talk like that.
    Yes Saiful is well trained now...but Karpal Singh is not going to let the kangaroo court win so easily.
    Got it...bodoh UMNO B toads?

  22. if its concentual, then both shud be charged? no?

  23. kesian kau anwar....orang lain dalam umno menyundal sampai nak patah batang tapi tak kena apa2 tapi kau?...itulah ...dulu cakap banyak pasal Islam ...snouk hugronje la macam2... lepas tu bergelumang dalam kandang umno.dan sekarang kandang PKR yang lebih kurang je...

    kalau kau masuk PAS dulu..jadi presiden PAS tak le kau jadi macam ni...

  24. Anonymous9:05 am

    consensual -> berzina
    non-consensual -> rogol

    the different between consensual & non-consensual is a lot that even a blind person could see!!!

  25. Awang Maya kembali awangmaya.blogspot.com

  26. Anonymous9:45 am

    C I F U T ? Yes.
    That will be s377B.
    C I F U T ? NO.
    And that will be s377C.
    The issue is F U T.
    The crime is F U T.
    Yes or NO ?
    Did they F U T or not.
    Thats what the court and public want to know.

    Apa susah sangat nak minta tukar charge semua.
    Ini semua baru cakap2..kita mau tengok itu evidence la...lets bring out the evidence..
    Cakap sudah banyak sangat la...ceramah cakap...makalah cakap..hi tea cakap..kopitiam.. pon cakap..sana sini orang cakap..
    Masuk court bukan mau dengar cakap lagi..mau tengok bukti..evidence...
    The prosecutor seems to have enough evidence to prove in court which the defence cannot counter.
    Thus the real reason for all the delay tactics.
    Lets bring out the evidence.


  27. Dear Rocky,

    I am not a lawywr and and not a judge.

    Pada pendapat saya kita harus tumpukan perhatian kita kepada adakah "berlaku jenyah yang biasanya dilakukan oleh kaum Nabi Lutt"

    Kalau berlaku barulah kita siasat adakah ianya dengan paksaan, tipu helah atau dengan kerelaan.

    Jika dengan kerelaan maka kedua-duanya bersalah.. tak ada dolak dalik....

    "Seorang wanita yang menyerahkan diri nya untuk di setubuhi oleh seorang lelaki, kemudian keran malu atau lain lain sebab mengatakan ia di rogol oleh lelaki tersubut. Bolehkah diterima dakwaan nya itu"

    Sepaerkara lagi kes ini masih dalam perbicaraan di Mahkamah. Biarkan mahkamah menguruskannya

    Terima kasih...
    Salam sejahtera.

  28. Anonymous10:36 am

    www.1malaysiafriends.com - Malaysian Social Network
    Free registration : http://www.1malaysiafriends.com

  29. Anonymous10:42 am

    Kalau with consent, how come Saiful wasn't charged with the same offence ? Was he given immunity from prosecution, not by the AG but by Najib ?


  30. Anonymous12:21 pm

    who cares lah, I am fed up with all this things. Malaysia in national crisis, kalah dgn Jepun Piala Thomas.

  31. Anonymous12:25 pm

    A thinking man’s guesstimate of the kind of conversation between client and lawyer in the beginnings of the trial.

    SinghKing: Ok now, you have to tell me what really happened so I can get a clearer picture of the situation. Only if you tell me the truth can I strategize all my moves in this trial, and you must not disbar any fact or information from me. I am your lawyer, understand? Now tell me in truth: Did you or did you not sodomize Saiful?

    Brader: Cit! Kotor punya kerja! You think what. I am a kunyit lover ‘aa? Go ask Azizan laa. I mean Azizah. I never sodomize nobody, you know.

    SinghKing: But all the evidences are overwhelming laaa. And that sumpah laknat is damaging. Foowee! Celaka and Laknat Tuhan on seven generations if he were to lie. That’s a very strong one, brader. Why don’t you give a similar sumpah in any surau, we call in the TVs and presses and bingo! Next day you know it, UMNO already kaput.

    Brader: Dey! Singh! You don’t play play with my religion ‘aaa. In Islam where got sumpah-sumpah laknat.

    SinghKing: But that sumpah is very powerful you know. Wow. If I am forced to make that kind of sumpah ‘aaa... eee. I won’t you know. Even though I am a Singh. Takut wooo. I mean, sumpah on I didn’t steal or I didn’t touch Norita ok laa I can do. But sumpah I never, ever liwat, I tak belani woo. Err... wait a minute. Can we cancel whatever I just said? I mean the last part …

    Brader: Look, bayee. Even Yusof Qardhawi said that I didn---

    SinghKing: B..b..b..but Yusof Qardawi didn’t ACTUALLY say that you didn---

    Brader: Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh!! Shut up will you? Dey Toncet. You are on my side or you are Saiful’s side?

    SinghKing: Of course I am your side. But the way things are going, the general perceptions, the various videos of that pengakuan, this pengakuan floating in YouTube, the confession of another liwatee to Taib Azamuddin, conversation tapped between you and Norlailia, all these are not helping laa even though they are not brought to court. And what the hell did Azizah mean when he asked Ezam to not let anybody, MEN or WOMEN in the house while she was away?

    Brader: Look. That no-good-ass Ezam is a non-issue here. We are faced with a brand new allegation, and you have to deflect that allegation in court.
    SinghKing: Then let me ask you one more time. Did you or did you not liwat Saiful?

    Brader: Ok laaa… I tell you. I did laaa. But then what is a sodomy or two? It’s not like I was raping him, you know. I mean, I asked permission first, didn’t I? I asked him, “Can I fuck you today” first you know. And then he tonggeng. Eyyyy! Itu rezki depan mata you think I am so stupid as to act like good good boy kaa? And don’t you go and be holier-than-thou on me, bayee bai. You think I don’t know ‘aaa… you like sodomy too.

    SinghKing: Shhhh! Can you lower your voice about that bit? Why laaa you have to shout so everyone can hear? Ok. So there WAS sodomy lah. And you are saying that rather than non-consensual, it was consensual?

    Brader: Well that’s up to you to convince the court like that.

    SinghKing: But we have a problem here. First we are bringing in this falsified Pusrawi Doctor’s report to show that there was NO sodomy act taking place. (And you think it was easy ‘aaa. The doctor was a general practitioner and was not an expert in this sort of things, and never actually did the minimum testing requirements to determine whether there was sodomy. But he agreed, so it’s a bonus on our part). And NOW you are saying that there WAS sodomy but it was a mutually-agreed act between you and him?

    Brader: Essentially laaa. All this talk of sodo this and sodo that making me feel real horny, man. Where's that donplaypuks so I may give him a piece or two of me. He's always helping me and now it's payback time.


  32. Anonymous1:03 pm

    Simple. If the charge is consensual - then why is Saiful not being charged as well?

  33. Mustapha Ong1:09 pm

    Salam Rocky's Bru,

    Not quite sure whether the ongoing Sodomy II is being hotly churned out in MM or Rocky's Bru.I think there are many more interesting news portals and blogs who are churning out the high profile case in hundreds of ways, some are being manipulated.

    But wait a minute, I also received an email yesterday from Anwar's blog with official PKR logo.blah, blah and reiterated that "the nation is on trial and not Anwar Ibrahim, blah, blah it was a private matter between him and Saiful WITH CONSENT, blah, blah. so why should Najib interfered! it's conspiracy of the highest order in Sodomy II".

    (Sodomy I was assigned to conspiracy by Tun Mahathir).I do not believe these conspiracy lies and blamed both Tun Mahathir and now PM Najib for all that had happened between Anwar and his conjugated victims.Both PM and Saiful admitted that they had met only once after the sodomy II incident.

    Please agree with me that there was nothing wrong if
    anyone of us wants some personal attention from PM and expressed our thoughts, both personal and official issues. It's up to PM whether he has time for such one on one meeting, normally at his Duta private residence.No offence had been committed here Anwar and karpal singh?

    Well the issue now on trial is rather confusing at first glance, although Anwar has openly admitted that he had committed the act, but "private and with Saiful's consent".We all know that under our law, carnal intercourse is illegal, whether with or without consent of the victim/victims.

    It's the mandated law and now it's up to the trial court to proceed with the persecution.No need to postpone the case and show the whole world that the case is being trialed by "kangaroo courts".Maybe in Australia as we in Malaysia do not have kangaroos but only deers.

    Incidentally, Malaysia is now like an "open casino" as punters will bet for win or lose by the hundreds of thousand ringgit in by-elections as well as this high profile Sodomy II case. I was told that maybe bets are being done on-line too.

    However, if I were to bet my ringgit, I believe that Anwar will lose the case, guilty and will have to spend some years in Sungai Buloh VIP guest house.

    I'll surely win but unfortunately no betting for me.Dirty monies no go like the Sodomy I case whether millions of ringgit and dollars had changed hand locally as well as in overseas.

  34. najib manaukau1:34 pm

    Consent or not AI is still an dirty lusty old man he is a bloody disgrace to the Muslims.
    His dreams and his aspirations to be the P.M.
    is only an illusion that will never realised.

  35. i told you anwar is a homo...

  36. Anonymous4:48 pm

    Assalamualaikum rocky dan sekalian umat islam di sini.

    Apa yg en karpal ingin buktikan di mahkamah adalah Saiful Bahri itu seorang Islam yang fasik (suka menipu). Org yang fasik tidak boleh diterima menjadi saksi selama-lamanya. Org yg fasik spt Saiful tiada rasa takut utk berbohong lagi walaupun dgn menjunjung al-quran.

    Tuan hakim bersetuju terdpt percanggahan dari segi laporan polis. Kes ini sepatutnya sedari awal penuduh telah kalah teruk.

    Ada org sanggup menjadi munafik dan fasik kerana telah dijanjikan syurga dunia buatnya.

    Semoga Malaysia tidak diturunkan bala oleh Allah krn menganiaya org yang belum didapati bersalah.


  37. Dear Rocky,

    Frankly speaking it is not easy to spin for the Saiful anymore.

    I am no lawyer, but I belief once you can proof that the accuse or witness is contradicting himself. The whole charge by him should be just collapse. Right?

    Shiok Guy

  38. Anonymous6:53 pm

    This is not a trial between AI and Saiful..They are mere commodities...

    This is a fight between Lawyers, how well they can belit one another!


  39. Anonymous7:04 pm

    Monsterball lau ren,

    Rose kat BB Park dulu, the snake she used to perform, with its consent or without its consent?


  40. Anonymous10:55 pm

    Told you Anwar is a homo.
    Now even Karpal says so.

  41. please watch my lecture titled "ANWAR IBRAHIM TAGHUT YAHUDI APCO" at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4omw9YYzd6Q

  42. Anonymous12:13 pm

    Poor Saiful...

    Karpal had made it...

    He spin the story until Saiful himself confused...

    At first, Karpal will ask for delay as many times as he can with an unreasonable reason most of the times...

    Then he started to play with psychology towards Saiful mind...

    Poor Saiful....

    Dey Karpal..just settle this case and send Anwar to Sg Buloh AGAIN...

    What you've done actually just make it clear that Anwar is truely guilty.....

  43. Anonymous2:37 pm

    Poor Saiful...

    Karpal had made it...

    He spin the story until Saiful himself confused...

    At first, Karpal will ask for delay as many times as he can with an unreasonable reason most of the times...

    Then he started to play with psychology towards Saiful mind...

    Poor Saiful....

    Dey Karpal..just settle this case and send Anwar to Sg Buloh AGAIN...

    What you've done actually just make it clear that Anwar is truely guilty.....

  44. Anonymous7:38 pm

    why everybody asking the same question: why charge anwar and not saifool? simple mah. only the fcuk-er kena charge, not the fcuk-ee. like that also dunno ah? hehehe.

    (monsterball's best friend)

  45. Anonymous4:18 am

    Please rememder that Al-Juburi is not a homosexual.
    He is a BI-sexual or AC/DC (Girlfriend boleh, BOYfriend lagi Boleh, especially with jantan lawa).
    It is not a sickness but a FETISH which is Very Hard to Resist!
    Believe It or Not!

  46. Anonymous4:37 am

    this case is a silly waste of time.

    The state has no place in anyone's bedroom...