Friday, October 02, 2009

Dead man's DNA on dead man's belt

NST 02/10: Beng Hock's inquest: DNA found on Teoh's blazer and belt belonged to deceased M. Gopala whose post mortem was conducted just before Teoh

BH 02/10: DNA misteri pada mayat Teoh Beng Hock adalah milik M. Gopala yang dibedah siasat di meja sama sebelum Teoh di HTAR Klang.

What happened to "proper" post-mortem procedures? After the Kugan Ananthan's case, where two pathologists came up with rather contradicting autopsy results, the independent investigating committee of experts appointed by the Health Ministry to decide on those two autopsies recommended, among other things, that "Proper post mortem procedures should be followed in all autopsy cases".

That recommendation was made in April this year and, obviously, nobody gave a damn. In the post-mortem conducted on Teoh Beng Hock, one of the most basic proper procedures, which is to wash/sweep clean the table on which the post-mortem was to be conducted, was clearly neglected.

As a result, we have a dead man's DNA on another dead man.

How lar, YB Liow?

Notes: I am making a link to a Press Release issued by the Health Ministry in April on the findings of the Independent Investigating Committee on A. Kugan's death in police custody. It's a long document, but it's worth reading it. Click HERE.


  1. Anonymous12:16 pm


    Death Toll : 3 (Burnt 1, Suicide 1, Beaten 1)
    Caste murder : Too many (genocide)
    Caste victims : 65 million

    No 1. Police probe death of millionaire

    GEORGE TOWN: Police are investigating if there was foul play in the death of millionaire Al. Mathivanan Pillai Kr. Alagappan Pillai, 61, the executive director of Alagappa Flour Mills, who died on Saturday at 6.55am..

    Mathivanan was found with burn marks on his body at his Free School Road house. Family members rushed him to hospital but Mathivanan succumbed to serious burns.

    No 2. KUALA LUMPUR: Actress K. Sujatha committed suicide and there was no foul play in her death, a coroner’s court ruled. Coroner Mohd Faizi Che Abu held that “the reason for her suicidal act was cremated together with her.”

    No 3. Cop pleads not guilty over injuries

    PETALING JAYA: A police constable Navindran Vivekanandan, 28, who was attached to the Subang Jaya district police station has pleaded not guilty to two charges of causing grievous hurt to suspected car thief A. Kugan, who died while in police custody early this year.

    No 4. United Nations is to declare discrimination based on the Indian caste system is a human rights abuse.

    The UN's Human Rights Council, meeting in Geneva, is expected to ratify draft principles which recognises the scale of persecution suffered by 65 million 'untouchables' or 'Dalits' who carry out the most menial and degrading work
    Many of them work as lavatory and sewer cleaners and in remote villages as "night-soil carriers".

    Higher-caste 'Brahmins' regard their presence, and sometimes even their shadow as 'polluting'. Many Dalits have been badly beaten or killed for 'polluting' Brahmin wells by drinking from them.

    The UN draft has been opposed by India. The Indian government had lobbied heavily for the Human Rights Council to remove the word 'caste' from a draft earlier this year.

    India's opposition was undermined however by Nepal, the former Hindu Kingdom, which has supported the move. Nepal welcomes UN and international support for its attempts to tackle caste discrimination. New Delhi remains opposed.

  2. Anonymous12:36 pm

    So malu. Where to hide our face? Basic also cannot get right?


  3. Morris Rozario12:40 pm

    This is a sick joke. Dead man killed dead man. Malaysia Boleh. This is balderdash of the first degree. Fiddlesticks.

  4. Anonymous12:45 pm

    Hi Rocky,

    I have copied your July posting just to show how cruel you were in trying to implicitly implicate the DAP councillor then. Now you quickly do this. But I must appreciate you for highlighting this dangerous error. This shows DNA tests in malaysia cannot be relied on.

    You are right in asking Liow for an explanation...

    Update: The front page of this afternoon's The Malay Mail

    Original Article:
    The NST's story, here.

    At the Teoh Beng Hock inquest yesterday, the Shah Alam court was told that DNA from two different persons were detected from a piece of clothing worn by the deceased.
    One of the DNA profiles matched Teoh's blood specimen and the other to an unknown male individual.
    Another DNA profile derived from a swab taken from the torn region of a waist belt worn by Teoh also consisted of a mixture of male DNA types. One of them also matched Teoh's blood stain specimen, while the other belonged to an unknown male.
    The inquest was also told that two people had refused to give their DNA samples to the police.

    The two are Kajang municipal councillor Tan Boon Wah and businessman Lee Wye Wing. Their lawyer said the two have nothing to hide, that they'd wait for the Coroner's order first.

    The inquest, which started yesterday and was supposd to wrap everything in two weeks, has been postponed to Aug 5.
    at 2:10 AM 74 comments Links to this post

  5. Anonymous1:04 pm

    This is sickening. This is a combination of incompetence and dishonesty on the part of MACC, Police and Govt doctors.

    Is there a collusion of all these parties? What are Hishammudin, Nazri and Liow got to say about this fiasco.

    How we see justice done in this country.

  6. Anonymous2:16 pm

    Malaysia Boleh bro.


  7. Aiyooo, whoever did the post mortem must resign. It a serious breach of procedure. It's just like a surgeon not wearing a glove when undertaking a major operation.

  8. Anonymous2:44 pm

    ask omar ong lah. he is so smart. he is the smartest malay what!!!. He can solve the pathologist issues. He is Najib's malay man, and Najib has betrayed Tun M.


  9. Convenient eh!! Its not a crime to be blatantly incompetent, stupid or idiotic.

  10. mazlan4:30 pm

    This is an absolute disgrace. Cleanliness and proper procedures are basics in forensics. Without it all forensic information is tainted and we can't get credible evidence and at the end of the day get to the truth.
    How many other botched autopsies are there.
    And for the Teoh family and his fiancee and child - they will not get to the truth of what happened to their son, husband and father...

  11. Anonymous5:01 pm

    Contamination...a new word.

    It means now the dead can also play their part in screwing up the investigation.

    I get sick in the stomach just thinking about the ineptness of our government servants.


  12. Anonymous5:37 pm

    all this while Malaysians have been exposed to DNA thru CSI ...obviously we are very much lacking in many ways..or we are just not interested to find out the truth...

  13. Anonymous6:02 pm

    These government servants and officials are putting their beleaguered political Masters in very difficult positions. And that's because the Masters are too mired in political fencings to supervise them.

    It's the same in most departments in most parts of the country. Jobs done in half-measures, sub-quality and unconscienciously.

    Those of us in the private sector couldn't survive a month with attitudes like these. So why should we tolerate and endure these inefficiencies.

    Those who cannot manage should not be managers !


  14. Kerijagila7:48 pm

    Kugan family's lawyer seem to know more than all the pathology experts in the world! He was saying that the experts were wrong and he is right.

    Poor Kugan's mother, the lawyer is letting her believe that her son was killed by policemen!

    Nobody in the right mind would want to do that to the poor woman.

  15. Anonymous8:36 pm

    It is seemly outrageous.Dead man's DNA on dead man's belt is really a sick joke and how on earth did this thing can happen?I presume it must be planted to make the whole thing a mystery and suspense.

  16. normally in police investigation for murder and suicide cases,all clothes have keep it by police investigation officer(I.O),how come TBH belt can go to post mortem operation room.

  17. Morris Rozario.10:25 pm

    Now we know why Anwar has no faith in DNA tests. This is the ultimate proof of how these tests can be manipulated. The authorities should drop the case against Anwar NOW. Long live Anwar. Contineu the struggle against lies, oppression ,hatred, bigotry, racism. The fight continues. This balderdash.

  18. Anonymous10:32 pm

    Is this the first time happen in the world where a dead man DNA was found in another dead man body?How come so funny one we all?

  19. Anonymous12:10 am

    The govt should be thoroughly embarrassed. All its servants i.e. MACC, Police, Doctors and Scientists seemed to be fully incompetent and unprofessional. Looks like the country will stay a third world country. How can we build a knowledge based economy when govt servants cannot follow basic procedure.



    Was there any 'doctoring of evidence'
    Will be in many people's mind
    Can there still be any 'confidence'
    Will be on your lips and mine

    (C) Samuel Goh Kim Eng - 031009
    Sat. 3rd Oct. 2009.

  21. Anonymous1:31 am

    You have all got it wrong. What this proves is that there is very professional conduct by the Police and the Forensics Dept (which is NOT Police). The Forensics is part of the Chemistry Dept which is an independent dept.

    The Chemistry Dept did their job in testing the DNA. The Police also did they job in backtracking the mystery DNA to the hospital morgue.

    Yes the Hospital Morgue tripped up here but thanks to the Police and the Chemistry Dept. they have solved the mystery.

    Now its back to the last people who saw Teoh Beng Hock alive ie Tan Boon Hwa. Tan also argued with Teoh in the toilet at the MACC. Tan also refused to go home after his interrogation session was over. Tan enjoyed the MACC's hospitality so much that he invited himself to spend the night at the MACC. Strange behaviour.

  22. Anonymous9:44 am

    Yes Anon of 1.31 AM.

    This is the SOP of the malay-hating, kuanyoo-worshipping, sodomy-loving and constitution-phobic visually blind DAPKRnics. Turn every shred of evidence that points AWAY from the guilt of govt machineries TO their advantage. It's like,

    "They didn't find no guilty party for Kugan's death? Then govt is incompetent"

    "They do find? Then they're incompetent too"

    "They found no evidences to point to the MACC guilty in the Teoh case? Then the govt is bad."

    "They do find? Then govt is bad too"

    "Sumpah should be used in high-profile political cases? Nik Aziz says so, so Govt is bad for not wanting it"

    "Whats that? Anwar refused to Sumpah? Then govt is bad for insisting on it"

    And here's the clinch:-

    Pre-Jembatan Pulau Pinang:

    "Waste of Rakyat Money, Not economical, stupid BN project"

    After Jambatan Pulau Pinang:-

    "Eh we can have another one, 'aaa?"

    These, and for these alone, opposing govt policies merely for the sake of opposing, are what instil disbelief in the aims and purports of the Fuckatan Pact amongst the rakyat. The TRUE, un-interneted, majority rakyat I mean.

    We are all equal, but some are more equal than others.


  23. Al-Sadr10:58 am

    There is a saying that goes like "while dead man's is walking , good man does nothing"

    I lamented if Dr Chua Soi Lek is Still the health minister , heads would be rolling if the procedure were not followed. No doubt YB Liew is a good guy (Mr Clean) but as the proverb goes above , hey you know what I mean ;-)

  24. Oh, how so convenient!!

    First they can't identify the DNA. Then a Govt pathologist suggests it may be contamination from the post mortem bed.

    And abracadabra & viola! Miracles of miracles, it turns out that is the exact answer after the hypothesis was mooted in court! Malaysia bolih!

    Any action to be taken against those guilty of negligent professional conduct?

    In the recent "paraquat suicide" inquest of local actress Sujatha in which Samy Velu's son Vell Paari was implicated, the senior doctor in charge at Klang GH failed to carry out a post mortem even though the police had handed him the requisite legal order and forms. His excuse was that he took the attending doctor's verdict of 'suicide' at his word!!

    More than that, many blood and fluid samples that would have established a completely accurate cause of Sujath's condition and death were so conveniently lost in Klang GH and have not been found till today!!??

    In Kugan's case, the Govt pathologist failed to note numerous telling and serious injuries on the body which clearly refuted his conclusion of cause of death as due to 'water in the lungs'.

    We will continue to accept lame excuses and utter lack of professionalism and integrity among our Govt medical officers at our own peril!! Many seem cowed into siding the Govt with no regard for their Hippocratic oath!

    We are all of 1 race, the Human Race

  25. Saddiq Sagaraga10:46 pm

    I suggest we replace these so-called DNA laboratory scientists with butchers. At least we can save money for the same job.

  26. Anonymous9:48 am

    The guys who dd the DNA tests are speaking the truth, th whole truth and nothing but he truth?

    It could be even that of anyone alive who was interacting with Teoh while Teoh was in MACC premises.

    All it takes is for the facts to be changed to say that the DNA tests show that it was that of a deceased person.

    In that way it allows the living guy to be relieved of having to come forward during the inquir to answer awkward questions.

    There are so many creative ways to stifle the truth from coming out to the open - when it is bad intentions all the way.


  27. Anonymous12:53 pm

    Sack these DNA scientists. Ask them to pay back the scholarships. They are a disgrace to the country.

  28. Samples for DNA testing were taken from TBH's belt and jacket at the site i.e. Plaza Masallam and before the autopsy. These apparels were removed before the autopsy when his body was supposedly & allegedly contaminated with that of an accident victim. If these samples were taken BEFORE the autopsy, how could they be contaminated by another accident victim? Something is just not right.

  29. 1. Kudos to the professionalism of the Chemistry Department and the AG's office for coming out very fast to inform the inquiry on the latest DNA findings. Job well done.

    2. However, the mortuary technician or cleaner needs to be sent to another refresher course on autopsy procedures or if there is already a procedure but not followed then the technicians need to be disciplined for negligence in the performance of their duties.

  30. Anonymous12:14 am

    That stupid teoh kill himself, use common sense will point to that conclusion, unless you want to spice it up like all those stupid PR goon.


  31. Anonymous10:22 am

    Dear Rocky,
    Just to get ur views, what do u think about this:

    -Sam Bgn Pinang

  32. Anonymous5:05 pm

    Good news. This gives Gobind more room to cause havoc and create a wild goose chase.

    So, what's the fuss?


  33. Anonymous2:21 pm

    DNA can be planted lah! How can this be accepted as evidence????