Friday, August 13, 2010

The making of an Islamic state in Malaysia?

Updated, Sat 14 Aug 2010
But is it legal?
Answer: It is not legal for any state government to issue currency. That right is solely the Bank Negara's. Click here for details.


Original posting
""Islamic" currency. Has Kelantan usurped Bank Negara and the Finance Ministry? Is it en route to becoming a breakaway state?
What's to stop Kedah, another state under PAS, from following suit? What's to stop the other state governments from harboring their own similar ambition? If we can have an Islamic state within Malaysia, maybe we can have a republic state, too?

Malaysian State Introduces Islamic Currency
2010-08-13 06:16:53.141 GMT

     Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia (AP) -- A Malaysian state is
allowing people to use gold and silver coins at stores and
restaurants to revive a practice from early Islamic societies,
an official said Friday.
     The gold dinar and silver dirham coins provide an
alternative to Malaysia's currency, the ringgit, in
northeastern Kelantan state, which is governed by the
Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party, a conservative opposition group
that promotes religious policies in its rule.
     The gold dinar was the official currency of Muslim
societies for centuries. The value of the coins used in
Kelantan can fluctuate according to market prices, but
officials say it remains a better alternative to currency
affected by the U.S. dollar and other foreign currency.
     Kelantan authorities also say the use of such coins is
encouraged in the Quran.
     State officials have produced coins worth about $630,000
for use at about 1,000 outlets in Kelantan's capital, said Nik
Mahani Mohamad, executive director of Kelantan Golden Trade,
which mints the coins.
     "It's a great, great moment for Muslims," Nik Mahani said.
"We are providing an alternative means for the people to trade
with."
     The coins came into circulation Thursday and can be
purchased at various locations in Kelantan. Their worth is
currently about $180 per dinar and $4 per dirham.
     The state government also plans to give employees the
option of receiving part of their salary in this currency, as
well as introduce gold bars for large investments. Muslim alms
can also be paid with the coins.
     The Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party has governed Kelantan since
1990. Some of its policies over the years include banning
gambling, nightclubs and rock concerts, and requiring Muslim
female state employees to wear headscarves at work.

-0- Aug/13/2010 06:16 GMT

76 comments:

Anonymous said...

Bro

Maybe its a good thing. Let it run for a while and if it benefit Malaysian overall then maybe the Federal government might want to allow it to the other states. The issue of Islamic state within a state should not arise at this moment.

If I am not mistaken Tun Mahathir is also very supportive of the gold dinar. What is the opinion of our Bank Negara on this unique development?

Lancang Biru

zackdanial said...

Bro return ur Datukship lah . U are Stupid . How did you become employed ?

Anonymous said...

What a silly and superficial comment Rocky!.... The world financial system is in a precarius state. There is a possibility of a severe worldwide currency crisis and contagion. A outright collapse cannot be ruled out......All this within the next year or two.

The problem is most of us are not aware of this danger because the mainstream media representing the banking oligarchs do not want the people to know this as it may hinder their grand designs. Only, the ones who do their own reseach and think know whats in store.

This is not a conspiracy theory at all. Dr M was mooting this idea of the Gold Dinar since the year 2002. And the Chinese govt, being wiser than our fools here, has for the past year aggresively campagned in the mainstream media for its citizens to buy gold and silver bullion as 'insurance' and investment in the event of a financial catatrophe.

I would have to humbly congratulate the govt of Kelantan for their concern for the rakyat and foresight in anticipating the inevitable financial chaos where gold and silver would be the dominant preserver of our wealth - an insurance of sort, a function it has been doing outstandingly well for 5000 years.

As an example, a goat cost the same in gold dinar terms during the time of the Prophet s.a.w as it cost now. A US dollar paper currency in only worth 3% of what it was worth in 1913....Go figure.

Truth seeker

Anonymous said...

There must be Central Bank and other laws that prohibit the stupid thing PAS is trying to do in Kelantan. Can some one elucidate, please.

This has come to mengarut proportions. What is Nik Aziz thinking? Who are advising him on those.

There are provisions in the Federal and State Constitutions about anything done contradicting the Federal Constitution being ultra vires. Would lawyers come out please. Not lawyers of the DAP, PAS, PKR kind that is. Not politico-lawyers. Genuine lawyers. Constitutional ones if possible. Experts preferably. Let's have these be de-karut-ised.

tomskut said...

Rocky Bru,

That is why you are stupid. Frankly speaking using The Gold Dinar and Perak Dirham, will give a no more impact on inflation and increase the monetary system in the states.

In short, it is better to use Gold than money. Plain and simple. You and the MEDIA are blowing out of proportion.

Why don't you investigate the MB's Sarawak case, which is by far much more interesting and much higher scandals.

EngHui said...

don't panic... read properly
it's optional

if you want something that will not be impacted by the currency market... then you can buy these gold coins and trade in selected stores (imagine u r in a funfair)

don't confuse this with PM's exchange method 'you vote BN and u get xxxx million for your school'
this is different, it means no vote no moneyyyy

Anonymous said...

Ok wat!!! can marry four and give piggyback rides to eight year old girls, and then marry them when they have reached puberty.

Saaalaaaaham

Anonymous said...

Elok cadangan Rocky untok bentok Republik. Setju dgn cadangan Datuk Rocky.

Anonymous said...

Don't worry rocky,

tiada penubuhan negara islam dalam PAS.- nizar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt7HAMhS8M0

DaniaelleDinar said...

Dia ikut cadangan mahatir buat dinar.
Ngok betul.

Sekarang ni orang pakai pay pal..make believe money.

Cuba beli barang pakai dinar kat internet. Laku ke.

Kerajaan Persekutuan patut rampas je. Mana bole sesiapa buat currency sendiri.. ngok lagi.

Anonymous said...

Terima kasih Tok Aji -orang menuju space age kita duk sebuk nak tunjuk betapa kunu kita boleh go! Pak Arab sendiri sudah ketawakan kita, caya lah.

Anonymous said...

Stop All Federal funding since Kelantan can fund it's own gold.

Anonymous said...

"Maybe we can have a republic state?"

What about Melaka, Penang, Sabah and Sarawak?

The heads of states are not from the royalty but from the rakyat.

Its just that they are appointed on the advice of the Chief Executive.

Who knows, in future such positions might be voted for as well.

PARAMESWARA

Habib RAK said...

This is indeed a great move by Kelantan for economic independance. This should not come as a surprise to the Federal Goverment who have continued to withhold federal funds to Kelatan despite collecting taxes from the people of Kelantan. The rightful oil royalty too has been withheld. When you are deprived, you will find another way because you cannot roll over and submit. Recently, Kelantan had the good fortune of striking gold. The mine is operated by a company from China. The gold mined will serve as gold reserve to back the Gold Dinar that will be used in circulation. Eventually, this may even be of more value than Ringgit.

As for the other states like Penang, Selangor and Kedah, there is nothing unethical or illegal for them to also find economic independance. As long a the Federal government withold the rightfull funds to the state, all measures taken for survival is fair game. Actually what the Federal government is doing today is blatantly against the Federation Agreement and Petroluem Development Act.

Ibnu Sina said...

I was thinking about that too yesterday. Are we having two national currencies?

mazlan said...

Didn't Tun Mahathir advocate such a currency some years back?

I'd like to hear Bank Negara's view on this.

Mind you, Rocky, regardless the principle of this I doubt it will catch on so no need to panic.

I'm also keen to hear Warrior231's views as well.

Anonymous said...

Why talk COCK????,,,,kalu sape-sape nak mintak kuar from MALAYSIA kan BOLE di ISA,,!!!!!

Walaupun GUE bukan rakyat KELANTAN,,gue bangga coz ia bole buat DINAR MAS,,!!!!

Ringgit Malaysia macam DUIT DAUN PISANG,,,zaman NIPPON,,!!

-EMAS TIRUAN-

ygbenor said...

Tahniah kpd Negeri Kelantan kerana berani menukar pemikiran terhadap pasaran wang.

glassman said...

They use the quran everytime to justify themselves.

kingnek said...

Rocky Bru, regardin this issue, I wholehearted support what PAS is doing

I have been criticising them lately because I feel that they are making mere rhetorics and just spewing hate against UMNO

At least now they are doing something that goes against the Illuminati and the Zionists

PAS and UMNO must unite and implement this together with hudud, then Islam will be strong as ever in Nusantara

But the Zionists will attack their move, and with their agent Anwar Ibrahim around, one wonders what these Zionazis would do

Anonymous said...

Alhamdullillah. This is a great day for Muslims and Malaysia and esp for our beloved Tun Dr Mahathir because it was he that proposed the Gold Dinar as an alternative currency. If the PAS-led govt in Kelantan is brave enough to take on Tun's proposal, then I can see a tie-up betw Tun and Nik Aziz. I see betw them, there is great credibility for an emerging alliance which the peoples of all races and religions have deep respect for in Msia.
The present govt except for a few have no substance and no credible integrity. So Rocky, don't be too worried. In fact, we all should welcome it.

karl said...

Kelantan just introduced dinar & dirham - the name of the gold & silver currency is taken from Arabic language, but it doesnt make Kelantan become more Islamic - it's just a currency. Any country can introduce gold & silver's currency and brand it with whatever name they like.

It's a good effort actually, bcause gold & silver are far more safer than conventional currency - they are not easily influenced by speculation actvt, and can be used even when a country collapsed due to war @ economic disaster

Btw, you sound like Islamophobic. What is the problem even if Kelantan want to become an Islamic state? I'm not really a good person to discuss deeply about Islam but if anyone here have doubt about Islam, I will try as best as I can to explain to you bout it.

Ahirudin Bin Attan said...

Dear Readers,

It's very interesting to see quite a few comments using Dr Mahathir to justify the use of gold dinar. If it's true, it's good that PAS has turned to the great Statesman for his radical ideas. But PAS has taken Dr Mahathir our of context, I'm afraid to point out.

Just read the excerpts from one of Dr Mahathir's thoughts on gold dinar as an alternative to the US dollar as international currency. Clearly, Dr Mahathir is propagating the use of gold as it is more valuable that the US dollar. He certainly was not campaigning for the dinar and dirham to be used to buy petrol at the Petronas station in Kota Bharu ...

The excerpts:

14. It is apparent that the banking system and Western currency has failed. The world mush study a replacement with a differenct system including the Islamic banking and trade with specific currencies such as the Dinar Emas.

15. Unlike paper money, gold possesses value anywhere in the world. The Dinar Emas was proposed only to solve international trade payments.

16. Is there enough gold in the world for it to become an International currency? Of course not.

17. But we don’t have to pay for everything using the dinar emas. It would suffice for us to only pay the difference between he import/export of 2 countries.

To read the entire statement on gold dinar by our former Prime Minister, click here

Thank you.

hishamh said...

@everyone,

The relevant law with respect to the issuance of currency and legal tender is the Central Bank of Malaysia Act 2009, which came into force last December:

http://www.bnm.gov.my/documents/act/cba2009_01.pdf

See Part VIII, Sections 61-63, pg 53-54.

Quote:

"62. (1) The Bank shall be the sole authority to issue currency notes and coins in Malaysia and such notes and coins shall only be printed or minted by or under the authority of the Bank.

(2) The Government, any State Government, public authority, financial institution, other institution or person shall not issue, print, mint or authorize the printing or minting of currency or any document or token payable to bearer on demand being documental tokens, which in the opinion of the Bank, are likely to pass as legal tender.

63. Only currency notes and coins issued by the Bank shall be legal tender in Malaysia."


Whether this is a good idea or not is moot; unless KGT has the authorisation of Bank Negara, it is operating illegally.

karl said...

hishamh,

let say in this case, an exemption could be granted to Kelantan to produce dinar & dirham (which i'm sure 100% unattainable :P), so what is ur opinion regarding this issue? is a good @ bad move?

hishamh said...

@truth seeker
Can you provide any references regarding your statement regarding the value of goats? The meme that gold keeps its value is not something that seems to hold from examining the historical record. I'd appreciate any pointers as proof to otherwise.

@habib Rak
That gold will become more valuable over time is precisely the reason it shouldn't be used as a monetary base. That way lies deflation and depression.

@Karl
I'm not in favour of a gold-based monetary system. There is nothing intrinsic to gold that allows it to hold its value against other commodities - both deflation and inflation are possible (and have in fact occurred) under a gold based system. As for speculative activity, pls read this post.

@bro rocky
I disagree with TDM on one score - there is and always have been "enough" gold to fund transactions or for that matter fully back all the currencies in the world. All you have to do is revalue gold accordingly, to about 500% higher than the current market price.

The problem is that because the production of gold lags growth in global economic activity, you have to keep doing this upwards i.e. permanent deflation. That seriously reduces the incentive to consume and invest.

Gelombang Wangsa Maju said...

Salam Perjuangan,

TAHNIAH, kerana perjuangan kita dalam menegakkan kebenaran mengenai kepincangan Pakatan Pembangkang pimpinan Anwar Al Juburi mendapat maklum balas positif dari kalangan pengunjung. Kami juga begitu teruja membaca artikel2 yang disampaikan di dalam blog anda.

Untuk pengetahuan saudara, blog kami yang dahulunya diberi nama UNIT MEDIA WANGSA MAJU telah dibubarkan dan kini telah melakukan beberapa penjenamaan semula. Kami telah membuat keputusan untuk menukar blog kami kepada GELOMBANG WANGSA MAJU.

Nama GELOMBANG WANGSA MAJU ditubuhkan atas permintaan beberapa pengunjung setia yang mahu blog kami dikekalkan di samping semangat perjuangan kami untuk meneruskan agenda menidakkan Anwar Al Juburi serta barisan keparat beliau.

GELOMBANG WANGSA MAJU akan menjadi lebih kritis dan terus mengkritik pihak pembangkang secara konsisten. Pihak pemerintah juga tidak akan terkecuali dari kritikan dan teguran blog ini. Tidak ada satu pun parti politik yang akan terlepas pandang.

Wadah perjuangan blog ini akan menjadi lebih universal dan bebas sekalipun masih tertumpu kepada usaha menyampaikan mesej pada isu isu nasional dan khususnya isu isu tempatan berkisar Parlimen Wangsa Maju.

KAMI juga TIDAK LAGI TERIKAT DALAM MANA2 PARTI POLITIK sebaliknya bebas menumpukkan isu2 yang dirasakan wajar ditegur dan dikritik.

Oleh itu, Kami berharap agar anda dapat MENUKAR NAMA BLOG KAMI DARI UNIT MEDIA WANGSA MAJU kepada GELOMBANG WANGSA MAJU di dalam list blog anda agar tidak berlaku sebarang kekeliruan dari pihak anda mahupun sahabat2 kita yang lain..


SEKIAN,

UMNO Didahulukan...
BN Diutamakan...

Anonymous said...

Rocky Bru, regardin this issue, I wholehearted support what PAS is doing

I have been criticising them lately because I feel that they are making mere rhetorics and just spewing hate against UMNO

At least now they are doing something that goes against the Illuminati and the Zionists

PAS and UMNO must unite and implement this together with hudud, then Islam will be strong as ever in Nusantara

But the Zionists will attack their move, and with their agent Anwar Ibrahim around, one wonders what these Zionazis would do

==========================
CAREFUL...WANG NI MUNKGIN
ISRAELI SHEKELS !

YOU ARE A F*CKING IMBECILE !
MAYBE MAMMAKTHIR HAS AN OPENING
FOR A MALAY HIMMLER ON HIS
STAFF OR YOU COULD BE 'TOK GURU'S'
PERSONAL HEZBULLAH ADVISOR !

BigDogDotCom said...

Datuk,

This issuance of the Dinar is not actually an economic independence of Kelantan. Probably it is just a progression of how goods and services are procured. It is also about giving the common people the 'stable' value of the 'money'.

The Dinar is valued at 4.25 gram of gold and the 'Dinar' which Kelantan is issuing is based on the current gold rate. (For reference, a 100g gold bullion is traded at RM 13,000.00).

Gold as you know is the most stable value of commodity. It has a more stable intrinsic value as compared to physical currency, esp US Dollars (where the world economy is basing their terms of exchange on).

The Dinar issued is probably a 'medium of exchange' for a 'modern barter trade'. Persons like you and me could buy these gold Dinars now and keep in storage and probably make more (in terms of its value of exchange) as we all know gold prices have been rising the past 5 years on a bullish trend. Physical money is not able to do that. If you keep physical money (cash bills), most probably one could exchange it with lesser value as compared to gold.

What this Dinar is out to achieve is just a symbol, which if implemented to fullest which include international trade, especially amongst all 57 OIC members would significantly change the world economy.

In 2002 when Tun Dr. Mahathir Mohamad started talking about gold-backed-exchange-medium between OIC members against using the USD or even other currencies such as GBP or Euro, its about curbing man-made (currency traders induced) inflation and dependence against USD.

Tun Dr Mahathir also been talking about "gold-backed-currency", of which the US Dollar is not.

To make this work, it is about to value the gold and authenticate the value and purity of gold presented as the medium of exchange. If this could be resolved, then the other problem is logistic (to store and transport such a heavy medium of exchange; as opposed to paper money).

When the use of gold is big, then a gold exhange and clearing house must be instituted. Of course, when the quantity is big, gold is no longer traded in the physical form but instead 'exchanged' in these clearing houses. That is where a comprehensive audit, value and certification program is required as a mandatory condition for institutional trade.

I doubt there is a law against the trading of goods and services for gold in Malaysia.

Despite of having a matured pawn system based on gold (Ar Rahnu), my doubt is that whether Kelantan is ready to make this Dinar system really workable. Then again the Ar Rahnu is being managed by professionals in Bank Islam and Bank Rakyat.

Who is managing the Dinar for Kelantan?

Anonymous said...

Apa beza dengan bank2 di Malaysia yang menjual Bar Gold atau apa2 gold sebagai simpannan? Bukankah itu hanya pertukuran bentuk dari Tender Note kepada Nilai Emas? Ini untuk mengelak Nilai Note yang tak menentu kepada Nilai Emas yang stable!.

BNM please wisdom!. Dont trap in FG Politic!.

jeffreydin said...

True, the right to produce currency lies with ONLY with the Bank Negara.

But these coins, it can be sold as souvenirs. They look nice. Don't rule them out yet.

Anonymous said...

hey that will delete lehmann syndrome, no more short selling, currency speculators

no more financial crisis

Anonymous said...

hahaha

the dap and pkr have been taken for a ride, yahoo

Anonymous said...

apa salahnya? dr mahathir pun dulu suruh negara islam pakai dinar. masa tu ko sokong bro. sekarang kau cakap lain. betul lah orang kata. ko tengok who pays u on the day

Anonymous said...

Datok Rocky,

Charge the MB with treason, for going against Federal Constitution. Or are we going to act only when LGE started to reintroduce Straits Settlement Dollars in Pulau Pinang.

Prof Awe Kecik

Anonymous said...

Dato',
Matawang Dinar Dan Dirham mungkin sesuai untuk urusniaga besar/pukal. Takut nanti ramai bergaduh pulak sebab bawa satu Dinar tapi beli telur sepuluh biji.
Siapa yang bertanggungjawab terhadap ketulenan Dan kesahihan kualiti Dinar Dan Dirham. Bagaimana pula dengan yang palsu nanti. Siapa yang perlu dupertanggungjawabkan untuk penguatkuasaan; pemantauan Dan penilaian? Kerajaan Kelantan? Adakah mereka mempunyai kepakaran? Sedangkan matawang Amerika yang begitu canggih pun dipalsukan? Bagaimana pula jika Dinar Dan Dirham hanya disadur dengan emas 18k?
Bagi pihak kerajaan negeri pula janganlah hanya mengusul sebarangan tanpa persediaan. Buat sesuatu yang praktikal? Jangan bersikap rhetorik sahaja. Kalau BODOH hanya pura-pura bisu. Jadi orang tak tau kau bodoh. Sebab tak bersuara sepatahpun.

Rakyat dah naik nyayuk dengan kerenah bodoh kerajaan.

Oleh separuh gila

jh said...

bagus lah macam ni, saya sokong penggunaan emas dan perak di Kelantan. Duit kertas yang kita gunapun hanyalah kertas, tak ada nilai apa-apa kalau matawang jatuh merudum.
Inilah ciri-ciri Islam yang patut digunakan. Barat pun tahu nilai emas dan perak.
Cuma kerajaan Kelantan kenalah fikir betul-betul macam mana nak beli beras di kedai pakai dinar.

Anonymous said...

Ahirudin bin Attan, how come you look like rocky of rockybru? Are you guys related??

Amirul HM said...

Kudos to the Kelantan State Government for being bold.

I personally support this initiative due to its anti-inflationary measures and in view of the global meltdown in recent years due to "worthless money" speculation.

The crux of the matter is whether this is a currency or a medium of exchange used for barter trade.

It can be both for all I care.
I implore all to start using the dinar and dirham as a medium of exchange...no harm will come as those "stuck" with it can always exchange it for paper money.



http://dinardirhamtrade.blogspot.com/

Anonymous said...

The support of the Chinese community is vital for Malaysia in its quest to become a developed nation, said Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak.

Iye, melayu tak mao Dinar dan Dirham, depa mao tundok kat jubor cina yg busok lage jijik, mcm Najib.

Hidup Tan Sri Muhyidin.

Anonymous said...

Ape salanya kalu Kelantan nak guna mata wang Syariah? Umat Islam kena bantu sesama sendiri. Kalu mata wang Syariah Kelate, tak mantap, mantapkanlah.


Osama Ladin

Anonymous said...

Chua Soi Lek, jangan HINA Islam.

Anonymous said...

lancao dirham. China rulezzzzzz.

Anonymous said...

BigDogDotCom said...


...Who is managing the Dinar for Kelantan?..

Ini tandatanya yang perlu diberi perhatian mendalam.

Just hope it will not be another case of "Pak Man Telo scheme".

PERWIRA

kingnek said...

to anonymous, 4:01 AM, thanks for the insult, coming from an islamophobic kafir like u, I am glad that I am on the right path

PAS must ditch Anwar Ibrahim, an Illuminati agent and unite with UMNO, there is no point giving the Chinese more political power, for their views goes against the native inhabitants views on Islam

jonathan said...

sebagai muslim saya ucapkan syabas kepada Tok Guru dan kerajaan Negeri Kelantan. This is very good move and noble work for the muslim. BN x berani nk tukar paper currency to gold sebab nanti US ugut cakap Dollar dia mcm dh xnak support lak. Mmg betul pun USD to takde value and semua currency value is only support by supply and demand. Good move kelantan for brave work.

Anonymous said...

I'm no expert in money and finance. So, here's my stupid question: What's wrong with the Ringgit Malaysia? It has been the currency that made this country into what it is for decades (of course, it was called the 'Dollar' a long time ago but that is beside the point).

Many Malays in this country are a confused lot, as far as their identity is concerned. They yearn to be Arabs. Suckers!

Some of these idiots even speak using 'ana' (me, I) and 'enta' (you). Donkeys. What's wrong with aku, engkau, kamu, saya, awak & anda?

Trip over themselves to please the Arabs here. I once went to Restoran Seri Melayu in Jln Conlay and a lot of food were Middle Eastern food and the songs played were Arabic songs. Might as well call it 'Restoran Seri Arab'. I left the place without dining.

What happened to promoting our culture? Tourist money is one thing but to bend over backwards just to make them comfortable here is just pathetic.

Even Astro has an Arab-centric programme this fasting month, complete with idiot Malays wearing robes, singing Arabic-tuned songs, desert tents and Middle East-like set.

The Arabs, on the other hand, have no respect for the local culture. Heck, they have no respect for and despise other people's cultures! They think they are above everybody else. They make no effort to immerse themselves into the culture of the country they come in to. They must be laughing at those Malays who try so hard to be like them, when all these Arabs care for is to go shopping and buy premium, haute couture European products and Japanese & Korean techno gadgets.

These sucker Malays, whether they realise it or not, are simply too 'ashamed' of their own identity.

At least those Caucasian tourists from Europe, US, Oz, etc - as 'un-Muslim' as most of them are - are typically very adventurous and go into the kampungs, attend real or mock Malay/Chinese/Indian/tribal weddings, try on local costumes, eat the local food, go see and appreciate the country's natural attractions, learn some local lingo, etc.

I prefer these people over those stupid arrogant Arabs who can't even unite themselves and then get bullied by foreign forces back in the Middle East.

Those confused Malays somehow feel that they can't be both Malays and Muslims at the same time.

So, the latter takes priority, for fear of hell fire(!). And in their effort to 'book' a seat in heaven, they 'Arabise' themselves.

- Lan.

Anonymous said...

Jika celup semua duit sen dengan mas dan perak jadilah dinar dan dirham palsu!

Anonymous said...

Biaq pi la. Yang rugi nanti orang Kelantan juga, orang kampung dll yang taksub apa-apa PAS buat semuanya betul. Sudah lah nak pecah-belahkan orang Melayu, sekarang nak pecah-belahkan Malaysia pulak. Bagus lah tu.
Tapi saya akan beli satu dinar and satu dirham buat souvenir coin collection saya.

glassman said...

If I pay one gold dinar for a plate of mee rebus, how much change do i get back? in ringgit or silver?

Anonymous said...

Using dinar while other state using RM for trade. The move by Kelantan state totally showing the stupidity of their thinking. Then suddenly people says that Tun supporting this idea. These people know nothing about currency.
The gold you keep is to stablize the currency. If you pay your people with dinar, imagine that how they want to buy goods whether Tesco in Kelantan or even buying things from other states.Currently RM is pegged to USD, previously USD are based on the gold they kept in the Fort Knox. The matter raised by Tun is because the Money Trader can manipulate the supply and demand of the USD, that it is why he suggested that the currency should be pegged with dinar or even using dinar to trade with other countries particularly Islamic Countries. But if Kelantan using dinar, while other states are not using it and other countries have difficulties to accept it, in future we will see that Kelantan economic will go down the drain. paper money are created for people to easy to carry it around, soon we will see makcik and pakcik having a bigger pouch to go shopping.And most of the time they will spend time at kedai pajak to exchange gold and silver for money paper.

Anonymous said...

asSaalaamu'alaykum.

I think the report by Aidi Amin of NST today was carefully written.
I found his coverage as fair by giving a background to the
to currency situation - i.e about Dr M and the bitter and valuable lesson
from the 1997 financial crisis. In fact he gave a lot more favourable space for Nik Aziz,
Bar Council, Dr M and Husam compared to Bank Negara.

Bank Negara is right that Kelantan Dinar is not a legal tender.We know Bank Negara
is basically forced by the World Bank to respond to the kelantan dinar.The ringgit as much as the dollar
are the banking legal tender- meaning they force the governments to legalise the printed notes to serve as money.
Being mere paper money, they do need to force public acceptance of the numbers printed on them.
And they wanted to print as much as they want.

On the other hand gold and silver coins are real wealth and do not need a banking order to have real values
associated to them. There is no need to legalise dinar and dirham (DD)since they are 'legal' without the need of legal officers/institutions.
They have real values. DD are not numbers printed but their weights are more important. Even the numbers printed on them
are in terms of their weights. 1 dinar is 4.25 grm of gold and 10 dinars mean 42.5 grm of gold.

Paper money cannot be used for barter trading but there is no problems for gold and silver since they are
real materials which can easily be used for real exchange of goods.
DD is not about payment but for exchange.Nobody can force us to use DD or rice,or bread,
or other goods for us to make trading exchanges. It is up to us.

Yes paper money and dinar/dirham are in entirely different worlds.Real and unreal worlds.
For the ringgit, rupiah,euro and the dollars to have reality they really need to be called legal tender.They need the lawyers of course.
Dinar and dirham do not need to be called legal tender. They are already real without assistance.

Problems only exist if we say they exist.
More important now is for kelantan to make DD easily available.Pasar Khadijah I hope have a good DD office
to promote DD. The model must be seen to work well first before other places can copy well.

wassalam. Ramadhan Mubarak

da

karl said...

@hishamh

i'm sorry, i'm not an economist, but the link that you gave to me is an analysis about "gold as an investment tool" & also "gold as commodities". but in case of Kelantan's gov, they introduced gold & silver as currency. It's about replacement of our daily used paper's currency, being replaced by gold & silver.

Iraq's currency, dinar (it's not gold, the name is dinar but it's still conventional currency), before Gulf War, 1 dinar = rm 12+/-. then u see now when war happened, what happened to it's value.

Mat Cendana said...

@tomskut 4:28 PM Thank you for your comment here, which has given me a lot of encouragement to voice my own opinion. You see, I was afraid that I might make a fool of myself when talking about financial matters. However, your comment shows that there's at least one person who is even more ignorant than I am... not to mention ill-bred and boorish.

It's amazing how people who come up with this kind of statement are actually describing themselves so well: "That is why you are stupid." Dude, do yourself a favour - go register for a course on basic comprehension first. And please take your medication regularly... blow a few more fuses and they'll take you away in a strait-jacket again.

Okay, let's see this proclaimation: "In short, it is better to use Gold than money. Plain and simple."
Yeah, to a simpleton it is. And we might as well not have all those useless courses like foreign exchange, monetary policies, sovereign fundings etc when it's all so `plain and simple'. Zeti Ungku Aziz should then be reassigned as Malaysia's `Assayer-General', and be like Shylock with bags of gold left and right.

Oh, you forgot something very fundamental here - WHY is it better? No, `Plain and simple' doesn't qualify. This is a bizarre assertion to make. What's the purpose of having dinar, kijang mas, sovereign, pound, ringgit, dollar etc if not as a currency; which in turn is to facilitate the exchange of goods and services. To insist that gold is better than anything and everything else in every situation is just too simplistic, naive and way misguided.

askarpencen said...

Salam Ramadhan Datuk

Kita tengok cara PAS uruskan KOHILAL, untungnya diguna bila lingkup depa lepas tangan.Depa kutip duit tabung masa ceramah apa depa buat pun kita tak tau. Ini depa buat matawang sendiri ikut Tok Det konon,kawan tu baru cadang saja, depa buat terus...wah!.. lagi hebat pada Tok Det.

Anonymous said...

Bro,

It is amazing the kind of comments that I read thru ur blog regdg this matter. Basically quite a number have shown what ignorant fools they are. I happen to know how this whole thing came about and the people behind this whole Dinar & Dirham are not stupid people either. They have been working on it since Tun M days on this matter and have taken the calculated risk on this. Only our stupid donkey politicians has sensationalised this whole matter.

The question now is what is how the Syariah Advisory Council will rule this whole matter along with the Ulamak Council because they know "damn well" that gold and silver is not haram and it should be part of our Muamalat or Economic/Islamic Banking System the "We" as Malaysian are so "Proud" of being the so called proponent and progressive and learned in the area of specialty whilst our existing conventional banking is so "Totally" haram?

Now for the masses that is so totally ignorant on how the financial system works, you know how you all have bitching about things being expensive and prices are going up? Guess what? That is part of the current monetary system u love so much under the ringgit regime that you all think are so bloody superior. What you are not aware of is ur darling RM is pegged mostly against the US dollars and other currencies which eventually is pegged again to the US Dollars.

US Dollars is pegged against a bankrupt economy where each time they print more US dollars they devaluate all the currencies that is peg against their currencies. That is why your darling RM loose value....and you people bitch about how things are getting more expensive....

Haiya how much dumber get you get...?

I am not going to apologize for being rude in my comments coz its about time the masses wake up and to be given a mental slap in the brains...

Keturunan Jebat

Anonymous said...

On the issue of who's going to manage the monetary system of Dinar Dirham for Kelantan; no problem. There are many high ranking and brilliant Kelantanese in the Federal Govt and the private sector with professionals in economics, accountancy, law and the likes that could be invited back and relocate to Kelantan. They can then serve their beloved state meaningfully by properly managing this new system, and uplift Kelantan's economy a thousand fold from what it is today.

carlos said...

The making of an Islamic state in Malaysia????

I heard this before sometime back in November 2003. Dokumen Negara Islam konon! But full of flaws.

And here is another half-past-six ideas from PAS.

I don't think Nik Aziz has any clue on implementing this. Maybe some of his smart alec boys ciplak TDM's mooted Malaysian Gold Dinar into Kelantan Gold Dinar....

This is just a stunt from PAS which will soon just die away like Dokumen Negara Islam.

PAS is too dumb to figure such complex finance and monetary ideas.

Their brains have too much intelectual insulation from those serbans also worn by Abu Jahal and Abu Lahab...

So one dinar equates to how many SEN? or RM for change. That would be too much mathematics to carry around in those serbans.

Maybe Zhullian can help PAS in minting those dinars... That is if Nik Aziz can differentiate between solid and emas saduran.... hehehe!

hishamh said...

@karl

I gave that link in response to your statement that gold and silver are not as easily influenced by speculative activity. I don't believe either are exempt from the forces of supply and demand, or from speculation.

My thoughts on gold as a monetary base can be found here and here.

The short version:

(i) Since the growth in the supply of gold has always been lower than real output growth (i.e. is deflationary), gold currency systems restrict economic growth;
(ii) Since the money supply (i.e. gold) is exogenously determined, countercyclical monetary policy is impossible, while fiscal policy will be ineffective. A corollary is that there is also a lower probability of financial crises, but higher frequency of real economy recessions and depressions;
(iii) Since money demand and supply affect the economy immediately, but real output takes time to adjust, gold based monetary systems are pro-cyclical and accentuate boom-bust cycles

Anonymous said...

Rocky,

No such thing as a breakaway state. Send in the troops. Push out the clowns.

We must not tolerate any intransigence on the part of any state in the country any more. Enough with Singapore (Lee Kuan Yew actually) and the stupid Tengku A Rahman giving it away free and so many Malays are cursing him until today. His grave might even have been peed upon if not for it being within the premises of Masjid Negara.

No more. No letting any state breakway or go away free. Now don't let any more Prime Minister do the unforgiveable and the unforgettable T.A Rahman stupidity. Don't Najib ever think of meradang and give away Penang next. Countries go to war to protect and keep their member states. Only Malaysia and T A Rahman gave away one state that was given back to us by the British during the formation of Malaysia.

Yes, keep the troops on stand by. Send them in if and when they take another step in the breakaway direction. Institute Emergency law for the State and have a Director of Operations like was done the last time.

Anonymous said...

Bro,

The non muslims shud stay out of this conversation because this is about hukum Allah and the non muslims are not versed in Shariah....they dont believe in Allah SWT in the first place nor prophet Muhammad SAW.

The Deputy Gov recent talk at Int'l Islamic finance a speech about harmonizing the Shariah and Common Law recently or is this just lip service on their part?

Based on my observation, what is the difference between the gold dinar minted by royal mint vs the kelantan one? After all the std of gold at 917 on kelantan dinar is better then the gold shop at 916.

Why shud anybody interfere with any transaction that is based on willing buyer and willing seller basis as in any barter trade? After all gold is gold wether in the form of dinar or jewellery?

I want the answer frm BNM Syariah Advisory Council because they are primarily responsible for Islamic Banking framework and its Fatwa/rulings...

Hukum Allah atau Hukum Manusia? Put the donkey politicians aside because most of them have their own vested interest to keep the current status quo which is to remain in power.

Keturunan Jebat

Praxis said...

Commendable effort to experiment with Dr Mahathir's ideas on the dinar, but I think the ideas was for Malaysia or the larger Muslim world and not Kelantan or East Timor. This, Kelantans' issue , is not in the spirit or the law of the Federated States. What mass does Kelantan have?

Why did God create the Malay people for? Nik Aziz should on this, and not try to usurp the great statesmans' ideas without the benefit of his God-sanctioned genius.

tomskut said...

Hey Mat Cendana,

Why is I am Willing saying that rocky bru is stupid and also you, is the fact IN AL-QURAN have said it, if you are a muslim, and if you are not than go ask the DEALER OR ANYBODY IN THE WORLD, what is good using gold dinar or perak(silver), as I was saying you are a stupid fellow who do not see the circulation of paper money is influence by speculation (HIGH SPECULATION) which in terms makes inflation. Have you study ECONOMICS 101, or are you just plain ignorant. seriously how dumb can you be MAT CENDANA.

DUMB DUMB DUMB. why do we stress out the IMPORTANCE OF OUR GOLD RESERVES. why is it?

Using money to buy something and gold to buy something, as WHAT YB TOK GURU NIK AZIZ says in todays newspaper is that if you want to use barter trade on the gold , it is not wrong, legally right?

MAT CENDANA, do us a favour go and look on the importance of GOLD first than rather put cheap shot at me, which I knowingly know that the fact that GOLD prices have been above par than our RM monetary price. Go and check in the websites such as http://www.hargaemas.com.my/ to see the good of GOLD.

Now the power is in your hand MAT CENDANA, are you going to use it or not?

If you are a muslim and you say one bad thing about what does our prophet MUHAMMAD does during his life, it is considered blasphemy and you should taubat. SO TREAD clearly MAT CENDANA.

Anonymous said...

Ramai yang komen tp tak faham sebenarnya....
Ringgit adalah didasarkan emas juga...
Yg Tun sokong barter trade guna gold dinnar sebab ekonomi sekarang menggunakan US dollar yg langsung tak berdasarkan emas...US dollar merupakan komoditi seperti emas tetapi hakikatnya tidak bernilai...gold dinnar & dirham ini sama jer..tp secara praktikal,kurang sikit..katakan nak beli minyak dgn dirham..1 dirham = RM 4...isi minyak motor ok lah..kalo isi minyak RM 80,bukankah 20 keping 1 dirham diperlukan...kalo bawa 1 gold dinnar = RM 180..byrlah 1 dinnar untuk RM 80 petrol..bakinya pasti RM 100 = 25 keping 1 dirham..jadi,kocek2 ada itu sgt kuat ker nak tampung berat dirham & dinar itu ? bukankah terdedah dgn ancaman rompakan ? sebab itu zaman ini kita nak kurangkan risiko itu menggunakan debit card,wang kertas...untuk mudah dibawa,bayangkan solat dgn kepingan dinnar penuh dikocek,bukankan mengganggu ibadah ? niat itu betul nak guna dinnar,dirham tetapi kaedah nye tuh perlu diperhalusi..cuma kalo diorng faham ringgit itu dtg dari mana, tak timbul soal dinnar & dirham...ringgit dtg dr emas juge,cuma bentuknya lain...debit kad sama juga,tetapi bentuknya lain..tp itu semua merupakan kaedah pembayaran...nak yg mudah atau susah..saudi arab guna riyal,xde pun dirham,dinnar...kalo bandingkan currency exchange ringgit & riyal hampir sama...yg nmpak semua ini gimik politik yg nk nmpak mereka lebih Islam,sedangkan selama ini kerajaan buat dh ikut Islam....yg beza nama sahaja....

anak cucu cicit nik aziz

Anonymous said...

anak cucu cicit nik aziz

Kalu u nak orang faham, kenapa tulis panjang, meleret dan tak ada perenggan?

Sengaja nak bengongkan orang ke supaya you can get away with whatever shit you are writing.

Write short paragrapghs lah, not everything in one para. Mana u belajar macam ni, plus nak sindir orang tak faham pulak. Aiyyya.

Mat Cendana said...

@Keturunan Jebat 11:02 PM had specified "I want the answer frm BNM Syariah Advisory Council" to his comment, and I'm neither from BNM or the Syariah Advisory Council (as if people don't know). But since the assertions are quite general and so don't really require specialist knowledge, it's within most people's comfort zone.

Firstly, I feel I must say something about the belief, perception and stance concerning non-Muslims, which is erroneous. In matters where their interest and wellbeing could be affected, it is unreasonable to expect them to be unquestioning. It's something like the issue of the open crematorium as being used by Hindus in Sentul. From the flat units, you can see - and smell - the bodies burning. Can Muslims and other non-Hindus be expected to just stay out, since it's not about their/our religion? No, because it also affects our experience, living.

This impression that "non-Muslims are not versed in Shariah" stands on shaky grounds. In some instances, the non-Muslim's knowledge exceeds some Muslims. And there are also many Muslims who are better-acquainted in bible studies than some Christians who are born and bred within walking distance of the Vatican. It's just a matter of how interested and how much effort one puts in to learn about something.

Now this one: "Why shud anybody interfere with any transaction that is based on willing buyer and willing seller basis as in any barter trade?" ...
If it's about the Kelantan dinar and if it's strictly as such - yes, there's absolutely no reason to interfere. And nobody is. But not so if some parties contravene financial regulations, like usurping the authority of a legitimate party. ...

"After all gold is gold wether in the form of dinar or jewellery?" --- You have to look at the other related aspects also and not just at the chemical content of the base metal. 10 grams in the form of grains, dinar and necklace -- they aren't the same.

Anonymous said...

Anon 1:43

Kamu hanya nak yang mudah sahaja...
Kalo chicken shit,jgn baca...
kalo nak para,tulis sendiri..ini bukan karangan nak ada paragraph..ramai je kat sini xde para pun..
Kamu hanya nak nmpk diluar jer,isinya kamu xnak amik...itu masalahnya puak2 ini...luar je dia nak,dalam langsung tak faham..lepas tuh marah2 pulak...

hehehe...apa la...

anak cucu nik aziz...

Mat Cendana said...

@Keturunan Jebat 11:02 PM had specified "I want the answer frm BNM Syariah Advisory Council" to his comment, and I'm neither from BNM or the Syariah Advisory Council (as if people don't know). But since the assertions are quite general and so don't really require specialist knowledge, it's within most people's comfort zone.

Firstly, I feel I must say something about the belief, perception and stance concerning non-Muslims, which is erroneous. In matters where their interest and wellbeing could be affected, it is unreasonable to expect them to be unquestioning. It's something like the issue of the open crematorium as being used by Hindus in Sentul. From the flat units, you can see - and smell - the bodies burning. Can Muslims and other non-Hindus be expected to just stay out, since it's not about their/our religion? No, because it also affects our experience, living.

This impression that "non-Muslims are not versed in Shariah" stands on shaky grounds. In some instances, the non-Muslim's knowledge exceeds some Muslims. And there are also many Muslims who are better-acquainted in bible studies than some Christians who are born and bred within walking distance of the Vatican. It's just a matter of how interested and how much effort one puts in to learn about something.

Now this one: "Why shud anybody interfere with any transaction that is based on willing buyer and willing seller basis as in any barter trade?" ...
If it's about the Kelantan dinar and if it's strictly as such - yes, there's absolutely no reason to interfere. And nobody is. But not so if some parties contravene financial regulations, like usurping the authority of a legitimate party. ...

"After all gold is gold wether in the form of dinar or jewellery?" --- You have to look at the other related aspects also and not just at the chemical content of the base metal. 10 grams in the form of grains, dinar and necklace -- they aren't the same.

Anonymous said...

Hmm...using gold as base currency is fine, if gold itself is not traded, i.e. a stable based value. This is not the case today. Your currency is dependent upon the productivity of the country, and mostly are managed on a exchange rate based on a basket of currencies. I think this whole Dinar fiasco is self attempt by PAS to be "Islamic" without understanding economic context then and now. There is no understanding of FIAT money, nor exchange mechanism, nor balance of trade etc. We can't simply apply something that work in the past to today's environment without changing the basis of the overall structure. If gold is tradeable, 1 Dinar today is not the same as 1 Dinar tomorrow.

What Tun M tried was to introduce an international currency (pretty much similar to what China is proposing in an IMF currency) that regulates changes, and remove too much emphasis on US dollars. However, the principle of trades is still the same.

The million dollar question is what is PAS long term structural proposal for the Dinar?

Mira

Anonymous said...

I'd suggest people to read on the Bretton Wood system and why it collapse - i.e. the Nixon shock. I seriously think PAS is too inward looking and is missing this point. Like it or not, US is still the biggest trading partner for most country in the globe. To change it requires overall systemic change. I can't stop to shudder on how Islamic parties tries to implement bits and parts of Islam without thinking that it makes no sense on its own. The same with Shariah/Hudud - it can't work without the right social system in place.

Mira

Anonymous said...

Mat Chendana,

U hv let me seriously to question ur believe system...The reason I ask the non Muslim to stay out of this conversation is on the Gold dinar of Kelantan there is transcription of Laila haillallah. Muhammad ar rasullullah. Since they dont believe in that is why they are to stay out of this conversation. Sure they may have the knowledge they do not necessarily have iman coz they would not like it anyway because they dont belive in Allah SWT and Prophet Muhammad SAW.

This matter has nothing to do with ursurping legitimate party...It has to do with halal or haram which goes beyond your assertion of legitimacy the same way that gambling license is legitimate and yet still haram in Islam.

Gold Dinar had always been halal even during Prophet's time so I want to know BNM Syariah Advisory Council ruling on this matter. Since you are not the Shariah scholar on SAC and neither are you the legitimate ruling party (BNM under BN), I suggest you wait until the ruling comes out as I dont want half baked non binding opinion, non legitimate and non Shariah compliance ruling on this matter as this is about Islamic Muamalat that Malaysia is so bloody proud of as being the proponent and the most progressive in the whole wide world.

And yeah you dont like Dinar, dont buy them and keep all the paper money that you want. Who cares?

I rather buy and keep Dinar even if its under my pillow as long as I know nobody can devalue it except Allah SWT.

Keturunan Jebat

Anonymous said...

A Dinar is 4.25 grams of gold content, physical coin during the time of the Prophet saw. It bought a goat. Today, 4.25g is about 550 RM which is what it cost to get an average goat!!!

The Iraqi dinar is a paper currency. Before Big Bush hit Iraq, 1 Dinar = USD3......Ten years later after the MAd Bush also stuck his finger into IRAQ, the value is 1USD = 1 Billion Iraqi dinar. So if you kept your paper cash under the bed for ten years, you know what you will have remained.

But if you kept in in physical gold ( no counter party risk), its value will not only maintained, but increased because of the increase in the price of gold.

The crisis above was about the Iraqi paper dinar. Today, there is a huge possibility of a world wide currency crisis. The same effect could happen to all the fiat based paper currency. So insure some of your wealth by purchasing gold and/or silver coins. You will not regret it at all. The worst case, you might end up doubling or tripling your value. Refer to some good articles in KITCO website.

On the other hand, if the worst case happens, the value of your paper money may deteriorate sharply to zero just in the case of Iraq, Wiemar Germany 1920s, Zimbabwe now ans Serbia in 1994....

Truth seeker

hishamh said...

@truth seeker

I'll ask again - can you give me a reference to your assertion regarding the price of goats?

The reason why I ask is that comparing prices at two distinct points in time is not sufficient to prove price stability - you also have to show it applies continuously in between. So I'm looking for data sources sufficiently long that can prove or disprove the hypothesis that gold maintains its value.

I'm also curious why you think there will be a currency crisis. I don't see anything on the horizon that can trigger such a crisis as you're describing.

Anonymous said...

Breaking news the CEO- Ismee of Tabung Haji is planning to use RM 400m to bail out King of Gambling by taking over Silver Bird’s shares from Tan Sri Vincent Tan and his brother. The main objective of this deal is Ismee can pocket more than RM 10m commission from Tan Sri. VT. No wonder Ismee can afford to buy a brand new S-Class and Ferrari!!!!!!!
This is not the first time, he already pocketed more than RM 20m from the past deals like Lityan, SPPK land & Pelikan.

How can the pilgrims accept all this nonsense happened in Tabung Haji??????

Anonymous said...

Bro,

What's new with abuse going on in Tabung Haji...? Why do u think every year the cost keep going up inspite of all the monies that is supposedly to be invested to bring in more revenue to keep the cost of going to hajj down?

Better you save one gold dinar every month and cash it out once you have enough...you don't rely on tabung haji to manage your savings for you. No inflation for you and the best part of it all...your money is halal to go to Mecca...

Keturunan Jebat

islamic finance certification said...

Well I think its a great initiative for Muslims.I don't know much about it so I will keep looking for ore information.