Friday, September 28, 2007

Expel Myanmar, says Zaid

Sign the petition here.

updates: Rally for Myanmar on Monday
Received sms at 10-to-11 from two journo friends. The message says:
Malaysian Peace Rally for Myanmar- 11am, Monday 1st October 2007 at Myanmar Embassy, Jalan Ampang Hilir, KL. Brothers n sisters, lets come in Solidarity to support our incredibly brave frens, d Myanmar people. Pls forward 2 all Peace Partners God bless.

Original post:

Asean MPs urge group to "disassociate" itself from junta.
Zaid Ibrahim, who is president of the Asean Inter-Parliamentary Myanmar Caucus (AIPMC) says issuing statements to tick off Myanmar's junta ain't good enough anymore.
"Asean must go one step further to dissociate itself from Myanmar as previous actions to persuade the regime have not brought positive results."
Zaid said unless the world took action now, the unrest in Myanmar could escalate into a humanitarian crisis and a repeat of the 1988 tragedy where more than 3,000 protestors were killed by the military junta.
Bernama reports here that at least nine people were killed in the past few days since security forces began a crackdown on street protests in Yangon and several cities where monks are spearheading the largest challenge to the junta since 1988.

The world wears RED today in solidarity with the Myanmar people. Read also Disquiet's Burma: The Struggle for Freedom.

36 comments:

nstman said...

Well said, Zaid. It's time for Asean, especially Malaysia, to walk the walk, talk the talk. It/s time for Malaysia to demand the end of military rule in Myanmar. It's time for Malaysia to take the moral high ground by telling Myanmar dictators - enough is enough. It's time for Malaysia to tell these bastard military dictators in Myanmar to take a walk. Does Malaysia have the courage to do this. No. It's a no-brainer. Malaysia has no courage and guts to do this. You know why. Because we are afraid of change. Because we want to keep the status quo. See no evil, hear no evil, talk no evil.

Anonymous said...

why not suggest US led invasion on Myanmar, that'll do good for democracy or at least US backed invasion by Asean forces (I believe Malaysia, Thai & Singapore can easily take down the junta)

Wattahack? said...

Why some ultimate moron nato orang Kurang aJar hero didnt got there and burn flag and demand to see the Ambassador and yell at him?

BigDogDotCom said...

Malaysia as one of the founding members of ASEAN should not breech the underlying principle of ASEAN; Non interference of neighbour's domestic issues and politics.

If Malaysia as a member state of ASEAN propagate and/or vote for the expulsion of Myanmar from ASEAN, then she has defied her own principles.

Malaysia as a member state of ASEAN should abstain from this issue.

NGOs in Malaysia, however are free to pursue this campaign as it does not reflect our nation's foreign policy and diplomatic stance.

caravanserai said...

The thunder of bullets
Rocking on the streets
The stomping of running feet
The departed souls got no reprieve

The army sent soldiers
They just followed orders
Like zombies without brains
Shooting the monks and innocents

The street demonstrations
It turned ugly; it turned into deaths
As the army generals lost control
They ordered the soldiers
Challenging the demonstrators
The chilling effect life and death
Freedom for the people
Lives lost to change the course

The World leaders talk and condemn
They don’t sent help to change the landscape
Asean leaders watched horrors of lives lost
Yet as a member Asean leaders couldn’t help
The monks and innocents will die
As the soldiers go on strikes

The thunder of bullets
The explosion of tear gas
The cries of the people
Choking out into the air

The learned leaders watch
Never send help to protect
The army generals go on the offensive
Knowing nobody will stop them

It is now the monks and prayers
For divine intervention to bring justice and peace
When it is said and done
The World leaders just have no guts to say
Let the democracy prevails
For the people have spoken!
The country turns bright red

Satria Asia said...

Malaysia's Umno government would not unilaterally condemn the Burmese junta because it will also not hesitate to use the police to attack, brutalise and use live bullets on demonstrators. We've seen this during the reformasi protests, 'Bloody Sunday' and just so recently, Batu Burok.

They've not yet used the army, but any large scale demonstrations will most definitely be met with troop deployment to beef up the police.

So, will Malaysia condemn the Burmese regime? Certainly not! It's almost like the pot calling the kettle black.

Anonymous said...

him again.yerkk.

NURAINA A SAMAD said...

BigDog,

True...Asean members subscribe to the policy of non-inteference which is the Asean way of doing things.

Calling to expel a member is not inteference. It is a stand made against that member and not without a damn good reason.
Myanmar's military junta gives a bad name to Asean.
I would certainly advocate expulsion unless the country's military junta cease and desist its harsh crackdown against its own people.

The world, least of all, Asean, cannot remain unfazed, turn a blind eye, at what is happening in Myanmar.
Because when it escalates into a major tragedy, we would be wishing that we had helped.

Get out of that box, man.
Some things cannot be drawn in black and white.

Pasquale said...

Rocky

Our Prime Minister will have no choice but to voice US demands, such as demands for Malaysia to accomodate S'pore for Iskandar in Southern Johore which will be like Batam, a defacto S'pore territory! Now it is US demand for Malaysia PM to say Myanmar must be expelled! And guess what our PM complied and said that, also via Zahid Ibrahim! The US once wanted Mahathir to do the same but Mahathir gave US the "finger"!
Once I and few other senior journalists had dinner with the then US Deputy Secretary of State Barzel, a big mulatto woman. She was trying to convey a message through us to tell, hopefully, our decision makers not to accept Myanmar into Asean, reason?! To save face for the US which wanted Myanmar to be isolated, why? Because the US wants Myanmar fossil fuel reserve not to fall into into the hand of China! Lets get one thing straight the situation n Burma as it is in Iraq has nothing to do with democracy for the pathetic people but for control of fossil fuel, as I gathered Total and Chevron are not having a good time extracting petroleum in Myanmar and the Junta is not co-operating with them.
Want to know why present PM comply to US demand, because if he doe not the US will charge his son in the nuclear centrifuge export complication, so blackmail once again is the thrust of the US foreign policy!

Pasquale said...

Rocky P.S.!

I agree with nstman, instead of expelling Myanmar from Asean, Asean members must once again make a concerted effort to ask Myanmar to end its military rule and to force junta members to go into exile, but not to expel Myanmar from Asean! Let us not fall trap to the US shrewed demands.

One of the main reasons why the Junta is weary of Ang Sang Suu Kyi is because she, while of Burmese extraction, was born in England or raised in entirely there and she could not converse well in Burmese. She is a complete anglophile, and all of her very close associate and advisors are all British trained possibly in the true Oxbridge tradition who also speak well on BBC or CNN with their impeccable British accent. The Junta cannot be blamed for suspecting Suu Kyi as part of that new wave neo-imperialism and neo-colonialism. She is suspected of being a trained plant or a stooge from England to rule in this natural resources rich country, just like what is happening to or might happened in Malaysia if we do not put a stop to it as well. Do not forget our Oxford trained plant and stooge as well!

BigDogDotCom said...

Nuraina,

What is happening in Myanmar is purely a domestic issue and internal politics. Myanmar has not breeched any bi-lateral issues, like diplomatic conflict, within and intra ASEAN. Therefore no reason why Malaysia should ask, nor vote Myanmar out of ASEAN.

What Wisma Putra could do is pressure Myanmar for intra ASEAN trade liberalisation, just like where ASEAN is heading at the moment.

If 'lack of democratization' and 'human rights' is the flavour and essence why Myanmar should be expelled from ASEAN, then Malaysia should also advocate the expulsion of Vietnam and Brunei.

Brunei is an absolute monarchy. There is no such thing as assembly, let alone elections. And yet no one in Malaysia 'dared' to say anything about this.

Malaysia should not have double standards in our principles of foreign policy, especially to our neighbours.


Wattahack,

That 'MORON' is just playing WAYANG! Its politically correct, amongst the Malays to do a 'wayang' against the US, a pro-Zionists Israel regime and very close ally and also wins their heart, at it.

No mileage gained from championing the Myanmarese, from his political position perspective.

Its so transparent, that 'MORON'!

I agree with Pasquale. Malaysia should not be a tool of the West in their agenda, through 'democratization' that they advocate so loudly, just like how the Iraq invasion was justified.

The analysis on fossil fuel and other valuable minerals and natural resources that Myanmar sit on is the ulterior motive.

Malaysia should remain neutral in Myanmar's domestic issues, like it had been since 1967.

Anonymous said...

Sever ties? Susah lah.

France's Total and our pride & joy Petronas together exploit up to 90pct of Myanmar's natural gas.

Anonymous said...

3000 monks cannot defeat 1 general and his army. Looks like they are more powerful than God

A Voice said...

Well said, Pasquale. Very well said. Foreign policy is not as simple as someone shoot someone and the killer is wrong. It is more and very complex mesh of history, politics, security, economics and even personality.

Unfortunately and it is truly unfortunate, innocent people are caught in the crossfire of competing forces. Their suffering is not meant to be taken lightly. Most likely there are indiscretion by the millitary.

Millitary men thinks in a much different manner but utmost to them is security and defending sovereignty. They are very single minded in this respect.

But innocent people with good intention tend to simplify a complex issue or take only a prefered perspective of issues. They get taken in hook, line and sinker with the simplistic message, which intentionally drummed up by insiduous minds working behind the scene.

Zaid has every right to speak in whatever capacity he wishes. But I am afraid he is confining himself to a limitted perspective of the issue. Foreign policy has its own professionals and experts. Sometimes one wrong move and mouth will kill many years of delicate diplomacy. I really hope he knows what he is talking about.

Ini yang aku allergic dengan lawyers. Mentang2 kerja dia orang bercakap, dia ingat dia boleh cakap saja apa2 isu dia nak cakap dan beri pendapat.

I am on a poetic intermission with Desiderata. Perhaps someone like to read and ponder over it on my Blog.

shanghaistephen said...

Sack Myanmar now...send in the Mat Rempits and while we're at it send bigdog too !hundreds are dead but junta blackens the news....and hey bigdog,why are you always craving for attention, for all the wrong reasons, huh ? why do you have such naive and picture perfect views of the real world...maybe you are looking from a dog's point of view....serving your masters only !stop this doggy views now, bigdog...
we are quick to see the speck in our neighbour's eye but afraid to admit the log struck in ours !and as pasquale said, yes beware our own oxfordian upstarts !
cheers and here's to Burma... Libertarde "!!

Hantu Laut said...

Myanmar, without immediate reform to call for democratic election should be expelled from Asean.The military rule in Myanmar is illegal.The entry of Myanmar into Asean was spearheaded by Malaysia, therefore, Malaysia should initiate its expulsion.

I am against demonstrations peaceful or otherwise, but shooting unarmed people should not be tolerated and Asean should follow in the steps of the Commonwealth, any rogue member, must be expelled.

Anonymous said...

Well said, Shanghai.

I agree with Shanghai that Bigdogdotcom seemed to crave attention by being pain the neck and the arse.

Sort of reminded me of one despicable commenter called Monsterball.

My 2 sens ...

BrightEyes said...

Aung San SK was born and grew up in Myanmar, not England. She won the 1990 Election, but the junta was too worried in stepping down even though the electorate had spoken. So they coin this excuse that she's a British puppet & put her under house arrest so they can hold onto power.

Tunku Abdul Rahman was also educated under the Oxbridge system. Does that make the Bapa Kemerdekaan an untrustworthy CIA operative to our country? Just because we have a Chief Rempit with an Oxford degree, does that mean we can tar all Oxbridge (and perhaps foreign grads) with the same brush?

ahiruDin aTTan said...

Pasquale, Bigdog, Voice:

While the Serbs were busy doing their ethnic-cleaning in Bosnia-Herzegovina, snipe-shooting civilians in Sarajevo and raping the women and butchering their husbands, sons, and brothers, the US and its allies adopted a non-interference stance and the UN was made to force the "warring" (it wasn't really a war but a massacre, as we all found out later) parties to down their arms. The Serbs, as we also now know, did not down their arms.

Only Malaysia - then under Dr Mahathir's premiership - dared speak up. A lone and small voice at first, it became bigger and finally we got NAM to do something and NAM pressured the UN to do something, and the UN got Nato and the US to do something before it all became too late.

Did we "interfere" with the domestic affairs of the Serbs and the Bosnians? Yes, we did.

We didn't do it through Asean, though. We did it through the Non-Aligned Movement. NAM, as it name suggests, is supposed to be, well, non-aligned. But at the Jakarta meeting then, Malaysia aligned itself to the Bosnians and forced Indonesia, then the NAM chairman, to align everybody accordingly.

Did we go against the principles of non- blok (the Indonesian term for Non-Aligned)? Of course, we did. And good thing we did.

Of course, our Government will make up its own mind after consulting with its other Asean partners. Our foreign policies are guided by the agreements we as a nation have agreed to and our commitments as a member of not just Asean but Apec, Nam, the UN, the world.

In the case of Myanmar, Abdullah Ahmad Badawi seems to think that Asean's policy of engagement has failed. What he does as a follow-up to making such a declaration will be a test of strength and character -- both his own and his country's.

The PM was the Foreign Minister when Malaysian interfered in the Balkans' issue and assaulted the Americans and chided the United Nations for their inaction. (Yes, it must be stressed that Mahathir led NAM against the former Yugoslavia against the wishes of America).

Given that experience, Abdullah should know well that Malaysia reserves the right to use its discretion in the face of its own conscience.

As a people, we can hope to influence him and his government to do "the right thing" or/and we can support him and his government when they are doing the right thing.

ahiruDin aTTan said...

ethnic cleansing, i mean.

Pasquale said...

Rocky and People!

Lets cut the bullshit, I do not see anyone of esteemed bloggers condemning the United States of America for atrocities and other forms of acts of inhumane brutality when even the retiring US commanding general of Iraq mission said the war was wrong! Is it because the Iraq cause is less popular as opposed to fighting for the Dalai Lamas Mongolia and Ang Sang Su Kyi lost cause?
Rocky, you cannot compare Etnic cleansing by the Serbs on others, in the former Yugoslavia, to the Tiananmein Square (sp?) incident where pro democracy movement of few thousands was crushed in order to rule 2.5 billion people in China,not an easy task, and with the recent state of anarchy committed by the monks in Burma asking the junta to be dismantled. For the uninitiated any Burmese government, including Ang San Su Kyi if she were ever to be the leader of this country, will have to put up with the antics of state within the state in Burma. Try dealing with the Karen, the Shan, Indian ethnic, the Muslim ethnic, the opium cartel, the opium smugglers, the Thai agent provocateur yes the Thai looking at every opportunity to de-stabelise Burma! The military Junta is the only political mean and mechanism for now that can rule, otherwise Rocky, the country will plunge further into the uncertainty of a political abyss like we have never seen before. No bleeding heart liberal minded politicians can even begin to imagine that they can can rule Burma under the present cesspool of shit mentioned. If you have a civil obedience in Burma, you cannot blamed the power for trying to nip it at the bud!
So Rocky do not compare Burmese military junta with the ethnic cleansing committed by the Serbs in which 200,000 Bosnians are still unaccounted for.
As for rich and comfortable middle-class bleeding heart liberals Malaysians, try not to react from any reality that is far away and detached from your imagination, it is easy to speak up what you think you believe in, in the comfort of your room with your laptop when the military junta is trying to kep the country together.

So lets us now really condemn the US for the atrocities committed by the soldiers and security contractors on innocent Iraqi civilians! Meantime allow the Burmese Junta to put their shit together!

Anonymous said...

too bad, Zaid is in bad company. He is one of the few exceptions and it will be a bad day when the surroundings overwhelm and change him.
it has been proven again and again that its futile trying to change the corrupt culture within the ruling party. many have tried and failed;worst many have been overwhelmed and decided to join in the corrupt acts to stay relevant within the ruling party. thats how low it has gone when the leader has to pay RM3.0 million to each division head in the general assembly ostensibly for works to be done. if this bribery is even dished out by a suppossed religious and clean leader, it only reaffirms the extent of the decay and corruption within.
Zaid, get out before your credibility is compromised.

Anonymous said...

i see no other way than military action against military Myanmar,

i do think most democracy lover would like to see some sort of "coalition of the willing" in Myanmar.

since Asean seems can't do anything, why not propose a US yes US led forc to neutralize Myanmar's military junta.

BigDogDotCom said...

I totally agree with Pasquale.

What happened to Bosnia Herzegovina was an armed conflict where the Serbs from Serbia (former Yugoslavia) took part with the Serbs in Bosnia for the ethic-cleansing. This was a cross border incursion.

It was the same as what the Palestinian had to go through since 1948.

So did East Timor (now known as Timor Leste).

The internal political struggle within Myanmar today is a domestic issue, which Myanmarese should deal amongst themselves.

What if ASEAN, Commonwealth and United Nations membership expelled Malaysia in May 1969, for bloody racial unrest which started on 13 May (for a few days)?

Of course 13 May was a tragedy, which Malaysians across the board regretted ever happened and vowed not to go there. Its would have been a gross overkill if Malaysia were expelled from its international memberships for the domestic tragedy like that.

A Voice said...

The name of the Muslim ethnic in Myanmar mentioned by Pasquale is the Rohingyas.

I believe no one here is unsympathetic to the plight of those demonstrators killed by the junta. This reaction by the junta on demonstrators is not the first time. We have never not been concern with this. Tan Sri Razali Ismail have been involved in the diplomacy for years but unfortunately to no avail. Can anyone give the real answer for the failure? Malaysia had invited them into Asean for reasons of positively engaging them. Doing trade and building relations. When they are dependent, we could perhaps have some influence. THis is a more effective long term solution than short term reaction which make them more defensive and inner looking. Could the internal chaos in the country be so serious that the millitary don't have any other choice?

If we are to entertain the call for boycott without due consideration for the impact, it is not the junta that will suffer but the Myanmar people. Remember Iraq under boycott before the American decide to blow them out of the sky falsely accusing them of WMD. And lets not forget of that someone making a big bundle of money trading Iraqi Oil at deep discount ... saya cuma recommend saja.

WHat some have been advocated thus far is just being reactive. Some are quite typical of human right activist reactions. In matter of such delicate matter, government and diplomats can't react in the same manner as human righst activist. They have bigger consideration and better informed to take their cause of action. I do believe that we should never allow ourself being "told" by the crooked Americans with their insiduous intentions.

Whatever it is, let it be a lesson to ensure peace and stability in this country. This is what happens under millitary rule.

NURAINA A SAMAD said...

ok... i condemn the US for all this and that.

And Myanmar should be expelled from Asean.
They don't need the Asean membership.
They don't bloody care about it.

And Pasquale... OF COURSE, what happened in Bosnia was not the same as what is happening in Myanmar.

What a moron.

bacardi said...

bigdog,

if the government on may 13 1969 had shot demonstrators the way the junta in myanmar just did... well then..perhaps our people would need external help.
the point is, that never happened. our government worked to find a solution, to arrest the problem.

BrightEyes said...

If we take the bullshit uttered by some of the junta apologists here and translate them, this is the essence of what they're saying:

"Unlike the Palestinians and Bosnians, the Burmese are of the wrong religion. Sorrylah!"


Interestingly, these guys are labelling critics of the regime as bleeding heart middle-class, while they themselves greatly enriched their wealth under the previous administration.

It appears we have our first Malaysians in space already, because it seems they are anywhere but on 'bumi nyata'/reality.

the sentinel said...

bravo Rocky,

how well you explained it. People are so tight-assed about the whole thing they cannot see the real issue at hand.

The damn junta can't even see that the US and their allies ar trying their darnest to bring down Myanmar at all cost so they can do what they're good at, plunder a rich-resourced poor third world nation.

Tell that Big Dog to do some international politics 101.
and tell your buddy, Pasquale that he's not the only one who knows Bosnia.

Cheers, bro.

Not the beer talking said...

It seems only Rocky is the only one trying to present some basis for the call to boycott Myanmar.

Doesn't do good for the boycott myanmar movement, if all the argument for the boycott is only childish shooting the messenger arguments of A Voice, Bigdog and Pasquale. The trio have good arguments supported by history and prudence.

I guess all the pro boycott get off your comfortable chair in front of the computer, go to Myanmar and take up arms. Are you guys any worth more than mere rhetorics?????

Otherwise it is just a bunch of bar room macho bullshit with teh beer talking. More talk than substance.

Anonymous said...

take care of your own backyard 1st

gwladys said...

Well, it certainly looks like something should be done, but that does not mean that anything should be done.. No I am not just playing with words here... I sit behind a glowing screen, fan blowing cool night air onto my skin and I am feeling rather comfortable and smug about my knowledge of the world but when I look at Myanmar again, I realise that I do not know much about this Asean neighbour except that it is not at peace with itself

.. Boycott sounds like the first step in testing whether our policy of engagement is working... it probably created some form of dependency but perhaps not enough for them to rethink their position vis-a-vis Asean.

.. Military action will get so messy so quickly that the only country with the kind of financial and military staying power needed to do the job is the USA and not many here are keen to have such a big dog digging so close to our backyard and the Americans themselves may not be interested in another long-range war, especially since Myanmar looks so much like Viet-Nam..

Expulsion from Asean... well if the boycott does not work, expulsion is certainly not going to do any good.

Like I said, I do not know enough about Myanmar and the conclusion I arrive at is based on the preceding rant.
And based on what I know, if we want to clean up Myanmar we need soemone with a very big stick making all sides in the country sit down and come up with something they can agree to and they have to do it under threat of military action..... Asean should mediate while the Americans stand on our back waving the very big stick...IF the shit hits the fan the US will ahve to lead the military action and Asean should play some role in it....If we feel so strognly about doing soemthing aout it.

If we have not developed a taste for war, then we should cultivate a love of the gab....keep talking and trying send someone new every week, every day if need be, just wear them down with sense and reason...We can send Rocky, Nuraina, all the 1,200 lawyers that went to Putrajaya to do some of the talking while pasquale and big dog can come along for moral support....
Engagement has failed, so far... do we change tack? I for one am too clueless to asnwer

Sophie said...

Asean, act now!!!!

http://sophiesworld-sophiesworld.blogspot.com/2007/09/asean-should-interfere-in-myanmar.html

shanghaistephen said...

hey pasquale and bigdog...stop preaching about Bosnia... we already know about it and are sorry it happened...ok get a life and now look closer to home, Burma...just because they are buddist, both you pretenders seem to jump on the band-wagon of apologists !
get real man,sack Burma and tell them ASEAN mean business and it is right to interfere, why not ? you guys interfered into condemning America for lesser crimes that didn't effect our jaunty lifestyles right ? Where were you both when Timor Liste was cleansed ?
Burma is for real and we have matured over the years....lets not talk bullshit about past and far away ethnic cleansing !
right here in this country the govt is also having another type of cleansing...it's called specie cleansing...I'm talking about the culling of pigs...you morons !!

BigDogDotCom said...

Shanghaistephen,


Better pigs than dogs!

Woof....woof.....

Better still, fish who are "enduring beer drinkers and have a problem differentiating between 5'6" and 5'8"......"

Hahahahhahahahahahahhahahahahaha

What an absolute moron!

shanghaistephen said...

And you bigdog should keep away from Selayang....lest they dog-nap you and claim a reward of RM15,000.00....see another specie cleansing...woof! woof !
cheers !