The PM, I was told, prefers to meet his ex-boss privately. Dr M, on the other hand, wants at least one person to witness this "peace talk".
You see, they differ on the smallest of details. Makes you wonder if the meeting will achieve anything. Or if there is going to be one at all.
But if it takes place, it's not going to be a quickie. Dr M had told an aide a short meeting won't do; he'll need at least two hours before he's through with Abdullah.
update 19 Oct
No Mediator, No Conditions. The PM told reporters yesterday he was prepared to meet Dr M but will not agree to a witness or mediator.
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Sdr rocky,
ReplyDeletepm-dr m meeting. The following I believe is the sequence:
1.mubarak mediated via dtk radzi and mokhzani;
2 they proposed that tun meet supreme council and umno ministers;
3.tun agreed, but said he would not mind meeting pm accompanied by a witness;
4. Pm agreed to meet tun but minus the witness. This was told to me by a member of mubarak negotiator.
Thank you.
semoga pertemuan ini menjadi kenyataan. aku cuma takut ada pihak2 tertentu cuba nak mengambil kesempatan dan mempopularkan diri, terutama di pihak pak lah.
ReplyDeleteSuch disagreement is normal in negotiations between two parties with opposing leverage and interest. Dr. M is actually dong the smart thing. He is not the one with power of authority so he needs power of public opinion to even things out. He also need significant time so that he can make sure his points are not cut off if things got acrimonius. If he comes out of the meeting without some resolution, being the dissenter, he would be the one at the losing end. Its all about finding a neutral ground of negotiation. The PM cannot object or he comes out looking insincere and not transparent. This is what happens when two leaders meet - you got to step up leadership skills and PM will be sorely tested.
ReplyDeleteI hear KJ and gang, especially Kali and Brendan the Mahathirhaters, are working overtime to try and foil this attempt to bring the two together for the peace talks.
ReplyDeleteIf Pak Lah knows what's good for him, he'll listen to the party elders. The young guns, as everyone can attest, has been a big, big letdown for the PM (the latest being the floppy CNN interview).
The PM went to Makkah for a sign. I hope he saw one and not told by someone else that "yes, indeed, you did see the sign".
PM want no witness, he just want to tok kok.
ReplyDeleteSpinners will twist and turn for the usual sychophant headlines.
Tun sure know what to expect, that's why must bring witness.
Mahathir certainly needs another pair of eyes and ears to witness the meeting just in case Abdullah Ahmad Badawi falls asleep midway through the session. It's not pleasant talking to oneself u'know, especially at his age people might accuse Mahathir of becoming senile when he is not. Anyway he needs an independent witness as AAB is known to backtract on his agreement because 'the people want it' and that irritating habit of saying "I don't know".
ReplyDeleteUsing the most advanced calculations, in between the catnaps, Dr M should get about 17 mins of quality time in that 2 hrs
ReplyDeletesaya percaya Tun memerlukan saksi kerana tidak mahu berulangnya sejarah pertemuan di jepun di mana ia diputar belit oleh Kalimullah.
ReplyDeleteAAB should be a man and say yes to witness. If he has nothing to hide or anything to worry, then why not a witness.
ReplyDeleteTrue, at least, with a neutral witness, Kali and KJ can't twist and turn the facts.
Kali and KJ - 2 irritating twats.
TDM is waging a psychological warfare to gain upfront advantage. By insisting on a witness present, he is signalling to all and sundry he is not only supremely confident of his stand but also has nothing to hide and is not afraid to make public what he is going to lambast AAB with. H eis putting AAB on the defensive right from the start. Ever the old fox!!
ReplyDeleteIn my wildest imagination, I imagined that Tun would secretly record their conversation. What do you think?
ReplyDeleteMahathir said he did not support AAB, and he said only UMNO can remove AAB.
ReplyDeleteUMNO supreme council said they supported AAB.
Mahathir tried to get elected to G7 of Kubang Pasu UMNO Division. He lost and complained of money poltics in UMNO.
Now mahathir said that he wil meet with AAB.
He will tell AAB that he did all that he did to test whether AAB had solid support from UMNO, to prove that others were wrong to say that AAB had no solid backing from UMNO. He will say that he was playing devil's advocate, and that he is happy to see AAB in cotrol.
He will tell AAB that he is still happy to be advisor of Proton, and Petronas. He will suggest that the arrangements continue. He will apologise to AAB if AAB felt hurt, because AAB was not strong emotionally strong, just like LKY told AAB that he was sorry AAB felt the way he did.
Mahathir will tell AAB that he will not be in the country to attend the UMNO GA. So AAB can be seen to be in charge. Mahathir will tell AAB that his Cabinet was actually half past seven, better than half past six. He was sorry to have been misquoted.
UMNO wins once again in covering up all the wrongdoings Mahathir was suppossed to tell the world.
I am willing to take a bet that among the top questions Tun M is going to ask is:
ReplyDelete"Did you not at some stage sign the agreement that allows the sale of sand to Singapore?"
And I suspect that the PM wants no witnesses because he wants to admit privately that he did so but it was a mistake which he realised later.
The sad fact is that the PM had a window period when he could have admitted so in public and the rakyat would have forgiven him. But that window has closed, and there is no turning back...
Sdr Rocky,
ReplyDeleteJadi atau tidak pertemuan dua pemimpin ini, yang penting ialah kesediaan Pak Lah untuk mengubah sikap beliau yang terlalu bergantung kepada pendapat ahli keluarga dan spinners yang nampaknya lebih banyak menjahanamkan masa depan beliau daripada membantu.
Jadi atau tidak pertemuan dua pemimpin ini, yang penting ialah kesediaan Pak Lah untuk melaksanakan apa yang baik demi bangsa, agama dan negara.
Jadi atau tidak pertemuan dua pemimpin ini, yang penting ialah kesedaran Pak Lah terhadap kesilapannya selama ini.
Jadi atau tidak pertemuan dua pemimpin ini, yang penting ialah kesediaan Pak Lah untuk bangkit daripada lenanya yang terlalu panjang sejak "mendapat mandat besar daripada rakyat".
Tidak ada faedahnya bertemu kalau Pak Lah sekadar mahu mengucapkan selamat aidilfitri sambil menghulur salam memohon maaf dan membiarkan sahaja ucapan Tun M masuk ke telinga kanannya lalu keluar ke telinga kiri. Kemudian hal berkenaan tamat di pertemuan itu tanpa sebarang perubahan di pihak beliau.
Apa-apa pun sebagai warga Malaysia dan seorang Islam, saya mendoakan yang terbaik buat bangsa, agama dan negara saya.
Andainya Pak Lah Yang Tidak Mahu Adanya Saksi Dalam PErtemuan Itu..Maka Secara Moralnya, DR M Sudah Menang BESAR dan KREDIBILITI PAK LAH MMG TERSUNGKUR Bergelimpangan DIParas TErbawah......
ReplyDeleteTabik Buat DR M ... U always Inspired Me !
Brother Rocky,
ReplyDeleteCan anyone answer this question for me?
WHY IN THE WORLD IS PRIME MINISTER ABDULLAH AHMAD BADAWI AFRAID TO HAVE A WITNESS PRESENT AT THE PROPOSED MEETING WITH TUN DR MAHATHIR?
The role of a witness is very important. This is also made clear by Islam. The religion has taught us that a crime is only considered committed if there are witnesses to it.
Surelah Abdullah who goes around the world to propogate Islam Hadhari including to those who don't even understand the basic tenets of Islam, would know the importance of witnesses.
By refusing Tun Dr Mahathir's proposal of having a witness at the meeting, the people can only assume that Abdullah has lots to hide.
Well, if I am allowed to guess, that may include Scomi's multi-billion dollar projects in Malaysia, who gets what in the 9th Malaysia Plan, how his brother Ibrahim Badawi is making millions through his catering contract with MAS and selling sand to Singapore, etc.
And of course Abdullah wants us to believe...
That Nori Abdullah and Khairy Jamaluddin are a very much in love with each other.
And Maya Karin speaks the truth when she says she has never even spoken to Khairy Jamaluddin...
What exactly is AAB afraid of, preferring a private meeting with TDM, when the nation's future is at stake.
ReplyDeleteIt's not as if they are going to discuss and decide who is the next PM.
As mentioned by nicholas, perhaps a video recording would be a just solution if a 'live' witness cannot be agreed upon.
It would be the most sought after DVD, won't it.
What exactly is AAB afraid of, preferring a private meeting with TDM, when the nation's future is at stake.
ReplyDeleteIt's not as if they are going to discuss and decide who is the next PM.
As mentioned by nicholas, perhaps a video recording would be a just solution if a 'live' witness cannot be agreed upon.
It would be the most sought after DVD, won't it.
orang nak menikah dan nak kena hukum di mahkamah pun kena ada saksi, ni pulak hal negara.
ReplyDeletewalau macamana pun hopefully both side ikhlas & will benefit every Malaysian.
Bru,
ReplyDeleteI've heard that Tun M initiated this so-called peace talk, and he was encouraged by the Mubarak team who is also keen to bring the two feuding leaders to a table to sort things out. Accoding to people in the know, Tun M said he was more than happy to meet Umno supreme council members to clear the air. I'm also sure that some members of the supreme council members would be more than happy to have their former president talk to to them. It is also believed that Tun had also offered to sit with Umno Cabinet ministers if that's going to be any good. Umno headquarters had apparently said ok to both proposals but ths PM went into his 'elegent silence' mode and and did not respond. But the PM did say YES to Tun M's proposal that the two meet. It was an initiative that Tun M made, not the other way round!
Will the meeting now take place, you may ask. I don't know. Tun M asked that a note-taker be present at the meeting, but I'm not sure if the PM likes that. We'll wait and see.
Sdr Rocky,
ReplyDeleteAnonymous was generally correct. Tun Dr Mahathir was the one who suggested a meeting with PM, accompanied by a witness (Please visit by blog).
The PM agreed to the proposal but did not agree to having a witness present.
Tun agreed to meet the PM without a witness being present after an hour of pleading by Mubarak peacemakers "for the sake of the Malays and Umno".
Our powerful colleagues in the mainstream media should put the record straight. Both leaders agreed to meet each other. But it was Tun who originated the request and the PM agreed.
But what happens to the other two proposals agreed upon by Mubarak and Datuk Radzi Sheikh Ahmad -- that Tun be invited to address the Umno Supreme Council and Tun be invited to address the Umno/Malay Ministers?
Tun agreed to these.
Still I wish them all the best and hope something good will come out of the meeting.
Thank You.
Bro bru
ReplyDeleteAccording to Kadirjasin.blogspot, “Mubarak menemui Dr Mahathir pada 2 Oktober untuk memaklumkan pendirian Perdana Menteri. Dr Mahathir keberatan bertemu Perdana Menteri tanpa saksi. Tetapi setelah lebih satu jam “dipujuk” oleh perwakilan Mubarak, Dr Mahathir bersetuju dengan pertemuan empat mata “demi orang Melayu dan Umno”.
So, there aint gonna by any witness.
Surely TDM would want to tell us (cuz we, the rakyat, are anxious to know its outcom) wht transpired during the 4-eyed meeting.
My fear is that without a witness & knowing Pak Lah, he could just deny what TDM says (just in case wht Tun says might affect Pak lah's image) with the help, of course, of the 4th floor budak2 hingusan and the NST spin doctors.
Bru, I agree with nt-sin of the sabotage by the Kalli-Khairy-Brendan trio. They will be the losers if the Dollah-Mahathir meeting succeeds.
ReplyDeleteSix months before the old wily fox vacated the hot seat in favour of the part-time Imam, the gang had met to chart the future course of the Imam and, more importantly, their own future.
Brendan was then still with the Spore ST. They also roped in Hoo Kay Tat and foreign correspondents and those working for foreign media. KJ was the brain, the commissar.
To allow the Imam to rise, the olf wily fox and his backers, real and perceived would be cut to sizes. The media and the corporate were the main targets.
KJ alluded to the fact who would live and who would die in the Imam's era. Anwar and Musa Hitam would live. Mahathir and Daim would die.KJ spoke of Mahathir's treason against Anwar.
So you see they cannot face the fact that Dollah and Mahathir are meeting so they get the third-rate editors like Hisham to spin.
It started almost as soon as the old wily fox said he would meet the PM.
They said the agreed to see PM. They did not say that it was PM who agreed to see him.
The old wily fox was the first to ask to meet the Imam with a witness.
The Imam agreed to see him but in a four-eyed meeting. No human witness for the Imam. God is his Witness.
*TypicalProgrammer*
ReplyDeleteI agree with most of you why they should be a witness. Let it be 3 (pro-AAB, pro-TDM, Lim Kit Siang or any opposition). Lets fact it there is no way they will appoint a neutral witness so the best is to let each side send a withness and one opposition as a tie breaker. Let the meeting be recorded since they shouldnt be anything to hide. With a withness at least AAB will not be able to make empty promise because any backlash by TDM would be supported by the witness. This might be a comical suggestion but then the whole thing itself is comical.
Tun 1 - Pak Lah 0
ReplyDeleteAnd the match hasn't even started yet.
Bru, the most selfish thing is about to happen. Pm and dr m will meet in private, hug each 0ther, make peace and leave us high and dry. Suckeeeers!
ReplyDeleteMahathir tried to destroy AAB through UMNO. He realises now that he could not succeed, and so does AAB. Why should AAB give in to his demand now. He agreed to Mahathir's request just like a Sultan whould grant an audience. The request for a witness is a face saving measure, and Mahathir knew that he would never get that. Mahathir was lucky that mubarak 'appealed', and that offered him a way out.
ReplyDeleteThe meeting shows that UMNO president is all powerful. It shows also that UMNO president is never wrong, and when he is seen to be wrong, the wrong standard has been applied, and he is still right.
AAB knows his credibility, integrity and whatever "-ity" he has is slowly being chipped off by TDM's outbursts. His mishandling of the disclosure issue with Red Dot Com, pope's apology and LKY's non-apology reveals more and more of his incompentency.
ReplyDeleteAAB has been on the 'charm' offensive, starting with the 'kedai kopi' talkshow in August and recently, on CNN, trying to regain lost grounds. Nonetheless, his efforts made things worse due to his inabilty to look and sound convincing. His interviews are turning out to be P.R. disasters because he is neither intelligent nor eloquent enough to present a strong image. Hence, we hear him say:
"I am the PM",
"This is my vision",
"I still have and command...big mandate",
"The people want me to do what I want to do(sic)"
which reflects the utterings of a desperate person.
Then, there were rumblings within UMNO itself. Sacking a member for his blog revelations about the UMNO leadership despite the disciplinary board's recomendation for other methods of censure. Plus that guy from KB(sorry, no time to check). Postponing the UMNO election.
With the UMNO GA due in Nov'06, AAB is grasping at any straw available to him. Meeting TDM at this juncture will make AAB look good in facing the delegates. Nothing substantial will materialise within 3 weeks from this meeting. The DeepaRaya activities will get star billing in NST, etc. Just enough for AAB to create the perception of reconciliation and plan the next move. A witness does not fit into AAB's scheme. And, perhaps, he is already saying "NO" to TDM.
AAB is facing a hugh loss for BN in the next GE and he's hanging onto UMNO's tail where he is the undisputable commander-in-chief.
Malays, in general, must realise that siding with the party which butters their bread ain't worth much if there ain't no bread in the first place. UMNO needs an 'extreme makeover' to be remain relevant to Malaysians.
In the spirit of Ramadhan I sincerely hope that something good will come out of the meeting between TDM & Pak Lah.
ReplyDeleteBut I have this nagging feeling that nothing much will come out of this meeting. It is a PR exercise, I believe, where Pak lah is concerned to prop up his fledging image & proof of how accommodating he is bending backwards to please TDM.
But it is a no -go from the start as Pak Lah is insistent that there be no witness and no conditions attached.
Pak Lah has said that he has nothing to say and will just listen to Dr Mahathir & he may just give TDM a polite but deaf ear and then forget all about what Tun has said during the meeting.
with all these mess going around..i was wondering if we are watching the best sandiwara of the century...
ReplyDeleteDear PM,
ReplyDeleteFor the sake of transparency, why not agree to a witness. Is that because you don't want to look like a fool again? Even if I don't respect you as a pm, at least as a man. By agreeing to meet, is this because you are conceding defeat to TDM. Why don't know all the time but ready to meet tun this time... just eat humble pie and admit all the wrongs. Don't expect you to make it right, we need more intelligent pm/advisors.
To me, the only good that will come out of this meet is for your own benefit, not the people. You're doing this to save yourself, and your animalistic son-in-law.