The Government has ordered the release of some 30,000 bibles in Bahasa Malaysia "detained" in Kuching and Port Klang on the recommendation of the AG's Chamber. Read the press release mailed to me about half an hour ago. Two reasons given: 1. These Bibles are meant for Christtians ONLY and 2. The distribution does not prejudice the on-going kalimah Allah court case.
Tuesday, March 15, 2011
In Malaysia, bibles in Bahasa Melayu are OK
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gambar tsunami jepunReplyDelete
So why is it in Bahasa Melayu? Oh lupa budak budak kristian pg sekolah kerajaan yang berbahasa Malaysia. Satu sekolah untuk semua.ReplyDelete
First Rocky, the report read "in Bahasa Malaysia" but you have the cheek to spin it to Bahasa Melayu. What are you trying to do Rocky? I think most Muslims has more faith in their religion than you give them credit for. Maybe a case of scared of your own shadow, or trying to score brownie points for your political masters?ReplyDelete
I dont understand the logic behind the notion that bible should be written in Malay. I mean,even the definition of Malay in the perlembagaan Malaysia is those who practice Malay customs and is Islam in religion. So those who embrace Christian is not Malay, hence is not required to read their holy book in Malay.ReplyDelete
As for other races who embrace christian, just translate the book into their own mother tongue, be it Kadazan, Dayak etc. Why Malay?
the bibles have always been meant for Christians only. The Herald newspaper was also meant for Christians only, and I have only seen it being sold at Christians bookshops and churches.
Imagine if the situation is reversed and the Quran is banned, even though it is only meant for Muslims.. it is the same for both sides.
On the kalimah Allah case; i find it absurd that some Muslim bloggers put up the "Allah 3-in-1" banner in their blogs, and not to mention the use of Allah's name in various local TV dramas (in 'acting' i might say, by Muslim actors and actresses), which to me is tantamount to using His name in vain.. while the Christians who use the name Allah did so in reverence, in prayers. Now tell me, who's the ones who actually respect the name Allah?
On the average malays do not read extensively. They only do selective reading. Not many of them will find special interest to read bible. Perhaps malay academia and serious muslim religous scholars may want to read the Malay Bible out of curiousity.ReplyDelete
I observe that by far people with Islamic faith are deeply consecrated to thier religous belief. Even if they are made to suffer or severely persecuted they would remain steadfast with thier faith(unshakable).
Let this be a test. If they want to forsake or desert thier religon they would do so not just because Bible is printed in Malay. They may have found some strange divine
intercession that they simply could not turn thier face away.
Just let them be. If they seek advise we'll help them out accordingly but dont bar them by force to stay on being a muslim for they are already unworthy to remain as muslim. I dont think that God would ever intervene to help that person to change his course.
After all God says no one must be forced to join or convert to Islam.
Seriously, you can't be that stupid or greedy?ReplyDelete
Cool heads prevail. Praise be to God Almighty.ReplyDelete
salam, kita telah mengundang bencana dan malapetaka datang ke Malaysia. ialah padah jika orang islam berpecah belah.ReplyDelete
This should really be a non-issue.ReplyDelete
Some Little Napoleons in govt obviously feel that they are the policy makers.
What 2 reasons? let's be honest here, there's only 1 - PRU Sarawak!!! So, any other problems?ReplyDelete
No Iam not fucking okay.ReplyDelete
Another Dol Flip Flop in the making.
Yes... we will teach them another good lesson. Final lesson. They will be booted out from this country.
1.Christians reading B.Melayu? In actual living,they don't bother to do so...nauzubillah.
2.So,orang-orang Islam melayu,kuatkan lah akidah or otherwise say 'cheers'!
3.Modernisation through bastardisation? This might be true.
Saya seorang kristian dan menggunakan Bahasa Kebangsaan sebagai bahasa pertuturan harian. Malah di gereja kami juga menggunakan Bahasa Kebangsaan (Dalam komen ini tidak perlulah saya menggunakan Bahasa Inggeris atau kadazan).ReplyDelete
Mengapa perlu prejudis terhadap penggunaan BM dalam Kitab Injil? Ironiknya menggunakan Bahasa Inggeris untuk meluahkan 'penentangan' tersebut (apakah kalian malu untuk berbahasa melayu? Saya bangga menggunakan BM walau berbangsa Kadazan).
Kalau tidak tahu budaya dan latarbelakang masyarakat negeri Sabah dan Sarawak, jangan buat komen melulu. Datang ke sini (Borneo) dan lihat sendiri bagaimana BM benar2 telah berasimilasi dalam kehidupan harian & komunikasi kami. Jadi apa salahnya kami menggunakan BM dlm upacara keagamaan?
Lagi satu, jangan bawa pemikiran "semenanjung' (maaf, saya tidak maksudkan semua), ke Sabah. Kehidupan kami di sini cukup harmoni tanpa prejudis antara agama & kaum. Peristiwa 13 Mei & pembakaran gereja TIDAK pernah berlaku di tempat kami. Tidak ada kumpulan kejiranan melayu & kejiranan india yg bergaduh di sini.
Jadi kepada 'bijak pandai' 'Semenanjung' (maaf sekali lagi, bukan semua), jangan memandai2 membawa pemikiran PREJUDIS kalian ke Borneo. Ia sifat yang sangat hina bagi kami.
Whichever God we pray to, the ultimate prayer is to get rid of your corrupt masters. No Taib Mahmud, no UMNO - and the country will be a more peaceful and richer place for all. Not just for the elite like you, Rocky.ReplyDelete
Alah, org melayu, baca quran pun bukan dia faham, they only recite blindly, but do not understand its contents and msg.ReplyDelete
so what makes these people think malays would want to read and understand the bible too? Haha, wishful thinking, we're lazy through and through, and we shall not dissapoint!
Why in Malay ?ReplyDelete
Does any Christian Indian, Chinese or any other races in Malaysia read anything in Malay ?
I've never seen a Chinese picking up a Malay newspaper or read any Malay book in the Malay section in a MPH or Kinokuniya.
Because of that, I think it is dumb to believe that a Christian Chinese would prefer a Malay bible over an English one.
If it's for the orang asli, then write one in Bidayuh, Melanau or any of the language. But not Malay.
In the constitution, religions other than Islam are permitted to be practiced but not preached to the muslims.
Unless the Chinese and Indian no longer use their mother tongue in school and daily conversations like in Indonesia, a Malay bible is nothing but a malicious attempt to go against the constitution.
Divided into 3 factions, we Malay are losing grip of this country.
One can mock our azan, give a ceramah in our mosque clad in a tight fitting shirt and splash paints all over our suraus -- and we clap in jubilance over our level of tolerance.
We've tolerated and given away so many of our rights. How many of their rights have they given away ?
Memandangkan ulamak PAS dah sokong untuk di edarkan Bible Dalam BM tu jadi apa kita org biasa ni nak buat...terpaksa ikut le...jika disebabkan bible tu ada anak melayu yang murtad...saham nya adalah ulamak Pas yg. sokong tu lah...Itu lah rupanya bila kita tidak berpegang kepada tali Allah..berpecah belah menegakkan benang basah...Ingat surga bukan untuk mereka yg. berseban atu berjubah ...Jubah & Serban atau Ilmu ugama je bukan tiket masuk surga...ReplyDelete
Hai sedara....siapa benarkan bible dicetak dlm bhs mly.....ada org Pas ygjadi menteri ke......sila study penggunaan kalimah Allah....cuma kat malaysia kurang sesuai sbb ramai umatnya yg jahil n rapuh aqidahnya.Delete
While the agenda may be obvious, one must also ponder if it is okay to translate the Koran in the English language. Likewise, what's wrong if these books of god were to be translated into Greek, Swahili or German for that matter?ReplyDelete
A GOOD MAN DOES NOTHING.
A non-issue that was manufactured to become an issue. And all you guys get so worked up. Why Bahasa Melayu? Itu al Kitab dari Indonesia bukan nya Bahasa Melayu. Ia-nya Bahasa Indonesia. And basically you guys have gone logger heads with the Indonesians banning a book written for Indonesians using Bahasa Indonesia, and not Bahasa Melayu as you'd like to make your readers think. How many times over must you guys piss off the Indonesians for?ReplyDelete
My goodness, Rocky..??ReplyDelete
The press release does say "
Bahasa Malaysia" as akin to 1Malaysia.
Isu pertama, bible dalam bahasa Melayu? Perlembagaan Malaysia menyatakan orang Melayu adalah Islam. Jadi bible ini untuk siapa? Kalau Bahasa Malaysia, saya tak kisah. :)
Satu daripada rukun Iman di dalam agama Islam ialah kepercayaan kepada Kitab-kitab Allah. Bible bukan kitab Allah. Itulah kepercayaan Orang Islam.
Negara Malaysia bertunjangkan agama Islam bukan? Lalu, dimanakah peranan Agong di dalam hal ini? Apakah gunanya para Pemimpin negara ini seandainya perkara ini tidak ditangani?. Ini rukun kepercayaan agama Islam. Percaya pada Kitab-kitab NYA.
Sama ada orang Melayu membaca kitab itu atau tidak, itu persoalan lain, tetapi yang menjadi persoalan saya ialah, kenapa harus di dalam bahasa Melayu? Bukankah Melayu itu Islam?
Salute to Samad "Janggut" Said, Akademi Pengajian Melayu Universiti Malaya, PAS, PKR, YB Puad "Sakorzy", Prof DiRaja Ungku Aziz.....A small step but a Giant Leap towards "Memperkasakan Bahasa Melayu"...L.O.L
Prof Awe Kecik
Dear lady J,ReplyDelete
Please remove your brains from your bra and put it back into your head. I am told that it helps the thinking process. But in your case I wonder, if this would even help.
Art 160 of the Federal Constitution states that to be Malay, person must be one who professes to be a Muslim, habitually speaks the Malay language, and adheres to Malay customs, and be domiciled domiciled in Federation and Singapore on Merdeka Day...among others
Article 152 states that the national language is the Malay language. In relation to other languages, the Constitution provides that:
(a) everyone is free to teach, learn or use any other languages, except for official purposes. Official purposes here means any purpose of the Government, whether Federal or State, and includes any purpose of a public authority.
(b) the Federal and State Governments are free to preserve or sustain the use and study of the language of any other community.
No where in the constitution does it say that the Malay language belongs exclusively to the Malays nor does it prohibit the usage of the malay language for purposes other than official...
I would suggest that before you refer to the federal constitution, please read the damn constitution because it is there for a purpose..
And who the hell are you to suggest that the dayaks, kadazan and rest of the pribumi need not read their holy book in Malay - the language they learn in school..
And are you aware the bible is also available in Arabic - the same language used in the Quran - al-Kitâb al-Muqadis - the holy book of the Arabs of Christian faith refers to God as Allah....
So tell me are we now going to lodge in international protest to protect Muslims all over from being confused...
Please get out from under the coconut shell and get a breath fresh air and bask in the sunshine ....I am told that it prevents the brains from rotting further....
Please be aware that we have become a laughing stock....
(bukan amin... :-D)
inilah akibat pemimpin melayu sebok berpolitik. nak jaga kerusi sampai leka yg lain2, terutama tanggungjawap kpd bangsa dan agamaReplyDelete
Anon 1:10 AMReplyDelete
Maybe your bark is louder than your bite? Or you are labouring under the delusions of grandeur?
Or, maybe, little brains find solace in ignominy?
A big F to all so called Malaysian Christian !!ReplyDelete
A big F too to the Govt !!
Which ever political party who is againts this will get my vote ..
Once Malaysian realize the increase of 'terrorist' activity in the next 10 - 20 years. We all should refer back to this stupid decision !
Btw, the Govt, Malaysian Christian and all the champions for this stupidity just give me a strong reason/excuse to at least give a moral support to the so called 'Terrorist' ..
Ps : To all my Christian friends/collegues/clients.. so sorry, as long as this stupidity stand.. considered all our ties is severed !!
What about the Bibles in the English language, some poor innocent Muslim may accidentally read it !ReplyDelete
Kitab Injil dlm Bahasa Indonesia sudah lama digunakan di Sarawak terutama di kawasan pendalaman. Tak fasih berbahasa Inggeris antara sebabnya. Walaupun penggunaan kalimah Allah terdpt dlm injil tersebut tetapi penganut Kristian pribumi di sini sebut Tuhan sbg Tuhan, Father, Lord bukan Allah baik yg di bandar atau luar bandar. Mungkin juga mereka takut terkeliru. Di bandar2 di sini, injil dlm Bahasa Inggeris, tak pernah jumpa yg dlm Bahasa Malaysia/Indonesia kecuali di kawasan luar bandar. Kebanyakan kita jgnkan nak baca Injil Bahasa Melayu, tafsiran Al Quran bahasa Melayu ambik masa berthn2 nak baca. Cheers!ReplyDelete
I am flabbergasted! Is there really a critical need to have the bible translated to Bahasa Melayu or for that matter Bahasa Malaysia? What is the objective of this exercise? What are they trying to achieve. As to whether or not the muslims or Malays are selective in their reading is besides the point.
I just wonder what the Majlis Fatwa has to say about this!
Everyone knows that the use of the name of "Allah" and having bibles in malay is to spread the gospel to as many people as possible. I disagree that Christians should be given the right to use the term Allah especially when it is so plain and clear that Jesus or God would suffice. My wife is half chinese and have seen for myself how the gospel is spread softly using the term "allah". My neighbour was looking to convert her. I wasn't angry but surprised at the length that christians would go to berdakwah. Muslims should do the same. Malays in general don't do it. They prefer to berdakwah among muslims, as if current muslims are not muslim enough. I have no problems with the Malay bible being circulated. Religion is a question of faith and choice. But the use of the term "allah" should not be used by Christians. But not one religion has a right to confuse the other. It doesn't matter what other countries practice. This is Malaysia.ReplyDelete
I find it funny that Muslims think that other Muslims (it's always others, not themselves) will deviate from their faith if they happen to read the Bible in whatever language. Come on Muslims of Malaysia. Is your faith so weak? You learn about Islam from young, even in school. So, what did you learn all this while? To quote zakimi, "mengundang bencana dan malapetaka datang ke Malaysia." How is this so? I repeat again; IS YOUR FAITH SO WEAK?ReplyDelete
Someone please clarify this for me without stooping to insults.
Our medium of education is in BM and we ask all Malaysian to speak in BM. Many reading materials are in BM and for the last 20 years all children (including non-Muslim) mostly know how to read in BM and now when they want to practice their faith by reading their religious text in BM, the intolerant and dare I say bigoted Malays are crying foul over the text being in BM! Come on grow up and stop thinking that only God (Allah ) loves you.That warped thinking adds to the problems we are facing in the world today.ReplyDelete
Instead of being neutral some influential bloggers like to fan the smouldering fire of unreasonable anger. It is pathetic that people use the F word to display their anger on this issue. It shows how uncouth/uncivilised people are in defending what they think is their right.
Lakum di nukum waliyadin.
satu lagi kerja bodoh kerajaanReplyDelete
aku tak paham betul dengan KDN ni,benda yang sensitif macam ni pun tak peka .LANSUNG TAK BELAJAR DARI SEJARAH.KALAU KATA BODOH KANG MARAH TAPI ITULAH MEMANG BODOH PUN MAMPUSLAH SAPE SAPE YANG BERTANGUNGJAWAB TUU.ReplyDelete
i thought it is in Bahasa Indonesia? was it printed and published in MalaysiaReplyDelete
"I dont understand the logic behind the notion that bible should be written in Malay."
You forget many M'sians have very poor command of English and in fact prefer BM. That's 1 reason why many chinese schools readily agreed to DPM's policy of abolishing PPSMI last year.
we are all of 1 Race, the Human Race
Why is it that in Arab speaking countries there is no issue with Christians using the word Allah without other Arab Muslims being 'confused'?.ReplyDelete
Are Malays in general so easily confused? I studied with many Arabs, both Muslim and Christian and they have never had an issue over both religions using Allah as they share a common language and heritage. Some laugh at us - on the basis that we seem to think Allah is a Malay word when it is Arabic; and that somehow Malays will lose our way if Malaysian Christians use Allah like their Arab brethren...
By the way it is Bahasa Malaysia - the National language. Indonesians call their language (which is also Malay) Bahasa Indonesia.
What's wrong if it's in Bahasa Malaysia? The services etc in East malaysia are generally in BM and so are the prayer books. Don't you think that East Malaysians have rights to read their religious books in the language they are most comfortable with? Maybe the Christian countries should ban the Koran in English etc, and let's see the double standards. I bet you start frothing at the mouth similar to other paranoid Malaysian Muslims.ReplyDelete
BN has made a really really big mistake. No different between BN and PKR.ReplyDelete
Najib must step down. Full stop.
Lady J 8:48 PMReplyDelete
Then, please explain why the Koran has been translated into other languages, such as English, Spanish, Japanese and Chinese. All without any fuss or bother.
Surely, the Koran is meant to be read and understood in it's original pristine Arabic?
Or is it a case of double standards - I can do, you cannot do?
Taken to it's extremity, Christians in Malaysia could have their Bibles exclusively in English (so much for the national language) and push for a strictly English-based education in English-medium Christian schools in the country.
Integration, not assimilation.
Which reminds me of what Singapore Foreign Minister George Yeo said recently when asked why Singapore banned Salman Rushdie's book "The Satanic Verses", but allowed the screening of the movie "The Last Temptation Of Christ" by Nikos Kazantzakis.
He said (as reported in the Singapore Straits Times, March 16, 2011): "So we got questioned. Our reply was the Christians are less likely to riot."
Of course, Singapore is a country that takes racial and religious harmony very seriously, and where inter-faith and inter-religious organisations, discussions and forums are a fact of life.
And where a Jewish rabbi can openly embrace the Muslim Mufti of Singapore, as happened recently.
Pada mulanya saya memang menentang bible diterjemah dalam Bahasa Malaysia dan orang Melayu Malaysia boleh dikatakan 100% beragama Islam.
Kemudian saya terfikir bumiputera Sabah dan Sarawak ramai yang beragama Kristian. Mereka yang pandai berbahasa Inggeris, tidak ada masalahlah kerana bible dalam bahasa Inggeris. Tetapi bagaimana yang tidak menguasai bahasa Inggeris. Bagaimana mereka hendak memahami kitab agama mereka.
Jadi mereka boleh membacanya dalam bahasa Malaysia kerana semua memahaminya!
Oh man, the thing is, why in Bahasa Malaysia? Oh, coz of bible christian in Malaysia cannot read in English or Hebrew like malay can't read Al-Quran coz they can't read Arabic. So, the issue is not the language used, but the issue are the lack of language practitioners among religions practitioners in Malaysia.ReplyDelete
Come on la, this is basically an issue created for GE upcoming this year. Well, nothing to said. Chow...
why not put a big cross in Putrajaya? It is out of respect only for christians.ReplyDelete
Anon 8.14 , have you ever read the Federal Constitution? Rocky is right. No where in the constitution does it state that the national language is Bahasa Malaysia. It is very clear stated in the constitution that the national language of the Federation of Malaysia is Bahasa Melayu.ReplyDelete
For those who think Christian in Malaysia are all Indian and Chinese...ReplyDelete
Demographics of adherents
The 2000 Population and Housing Census Report gives the following statistics
Bumiputra - 1,258,741 (59.4%)
Chinese - 546,422 (25.8%)
Indian - 129,368 (6.1%)
Other ethnicities - 36,679 (1.7%)
Non citizens - 146,778 (6.9%)
General Report of the Population and Housing Census 2000. Putrajaya: Department of Statistics, Malaysia. 2005.
bodoh tu tak apa. bodoh sombong tu lebih memalukan
Bahasa Malaysia is for Malaysians, whereas Bahasa Melayu is for the Melayus .That is the difference between Bahasa Malaysia and Bahasa Melayu.But, we all know that they are both refering to the same language.Do you not see the wisdom of choosing and using the term Bahasa Malaysia as the National Language and not Bahasa Melayu.You see Melayus by law must be Muslims whereas Malaysians can be Mulims, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus etc.ReplyDelete
Malaysia practises freedom of worship for Malaysians but not for the Melayus.Do you not see what Rocky is trying to spin?Naughty Rocky!
Why all this opposition to the Bible being printed in Bahasa Malaysia? It is the national language of Malaysia.ReplyDelete
In Indonesia, our neighbour and home to the largest Muslim population in the world, the Alkitab or Bible is published in Bahasa Indonesia, the official language of Indonesia.
Why do the Indonesian Muslims not have an issue with the Bible printed in Bahasa Indonesia? They are the majority and they could object to the Alkitab being printed and sold in their country. But, they do not. Strange, is it not?
Is there a difference between the Muslims in Indonesia and the Muslims in Malaysia?
Is there a difference in their iman(faith)?
Is the issue a fear of the Alkitab being used for the purpose of religious conversion? Have we seen a mass exodus of Muslims converting to Christianity in Indonesia? If that were the case, surely the Muslims in Indonesia would rise up in protest.
These are just my observations and my questions.
Oh my Allah! ( Tuhan )ReplyDelete
Bahasa Melayu, Bahasa Pinjaman!
Why so much of fuss?
Mean to say, those malays reading Bible translated in bahasa melayu gonna convert?
come on, This is Malaysia laa, Mana 'Boleh' ?
Rocky, One word, BODOH!
blog something else, Rais Yatim apa cerita dong?
p/s - heard the green bottle in press club got price hiked? no meh? u shud know what..... hehehehehe
Latuk Sir Rocki,ReplyDelete
A good translation translated the original piece/scripts/articles correctly. Am i correct?
In practice the actual meaning could not be retained if a written material is translated into other language.
Just imagine if an English teacher translated the word banana into durian, what would the student say to that teacher?
Mediocre might say this "TQ...teacher!" or if that student has enough brain he would say this: "teacher...you are dead wrong! kah kah kah"
Left a comment on this topic but waiting for it to be published.
Anonymous 8.14 pm said...ReplyDelete
" First Rocky, the report read "in Bahasa Malaysia" but you have the cheek to spin it to Bahasa Melayu. What are you trying to do Rocky? I think most Muslims has more faith in their religion than you give them credit for. Maybe a case of scared of your own shadow, or trying to score brownie points for your political masters?"
It has always been Bahasa Melayu -Malay- no such thing as Bahasa Malaysia. You guys are so reluctant to embrace Bahasa Malaysia as the national language- wanting to have your own vernacular schools-its hilarious that you now want recognition for Bahasa Malaysia. Humbug!
because u ban muslims from reading the bible, u make them curious. what is it that our govt dont want us to find out. God told eve not to eat the forbidden fruit. she was curious and went for it and all mankind have since paid the price. i know many muslims who said the Our father, sang christian hymns while in school (of the old days) even said grace before meals, and u know wat, they are still muslims today. rather than try and stiffle other religions, u people shud go and stop your own from illicit activities first - drinking, gambling, prostitution, incest etc.ReplyDelete
"before you see the speck of dust in my eye, remove that log from yours".
the majority of malayans have a one track mind. malayans, i mean those in the peninsula. u only see and know wat u want to know. see, it is not malaya, but malaysia. it is now malaya + sabah + sarawak. its no longer malay, chinese and indian, but malay, chinese, indian, kadazan and iban.ReplyDelete
malayans dont know much about their brotehrs from the other side of the south china sea. maybe on purpose and the msm, rocky included, dont help much. east malaysians, find speaking bahasa malaysia easier than their native tongue, no thanks to our education system. so for years, those of the christian fate have been reading their bible in bahasa malaysia (read bahasa indonesia since there is no bm translation of the bible yet). now you malayans want to stop them from their birthright????
where r your brains.
This also want to make an issue...ReplyDelete
But its ok to encourage people to gamble, ya?
I think the christian are really a confused lot. They have so many god's name, bible in English they called it god, bible in Mandarin, Tamil, and many other languages it is not God. Even Jesus doesn't speak English maa. So how come? I pun tak faham maa. Jesus speak Hebrew, there is no word God in Hebrew?ReplyDelete
Now they want to use word Allah for the Malay Bible. Come on man please decide what is your god's real name actually? Is it Allah or God?
For us muslim any corners of the Earth in any languages since more than 1400 years ago we call it Allah.
Aisay man after 2011 years now you decide to use Allah, please change all your bibles in all languages to Allah, ada berani ka?
To Lady J,ReplyDelete
Your mind is twisted indeed.
Why not, the Bible be written in BM??? - The Bible was written in Bahasa Malaysia (not bahasa melayu)for the ease of our East malaysian brothers who where told by the BIG bros over the "otherside" to use the BM as their national language!and for that matter the Bible has been translated into hundreds of other languages. Do you know that there is malay translation of the Bible that is older, much older then you were born.
Then, you said those who embrace Christianty is not Malays, again beg to differ, a malay can convert to Christianty (Lina Joy's case)
lastly, you said just translate the Bible into the Dayak or Kardazan language - I suppose we can now ban the Bahasa Malaysia language in Sabah & Sarawak & then use the Kadazan or Dayak langauge, easy mah!!!
You al##%^^&GGing stupid.Tak boleh fikir ke. orang Islam sensitif abt their religion.For example if non-muslims or to be specific christians can use the kalimat Allah, then you will see them wearing it around their necks or t-shirts in a disco or in a toilet. Muslims will never do that. Imagine a civil war breaks loose because someone wears a kalimat Allah in a disco.ReplyDelete
Ini lah apabila melayu lemah. Esok tak tau apa lagi !ReplyDelete
The day I hear the REAL Christians of the world and the Pope in particular mention Allah in any of their prayers then Christians in Malaysia will have my attention.ReplyDelete
Until then, up yours. Hands off Allah's name and bugger off with your "why not the bible in bahasa MELAYU". Even if it's in english you guys don't follow the teachings what more in malay. Hypocrisy of the highest level.
Those non-cristians and non muslims like Godfather,skil-I'm a girl actually-gannon and dpp stop being a batu api and passing comments like you actually know what Allah/God really means when you pray to so many deitys even them deitys themselves must be as confused as you guys.
I don't have a problem with the language just with people.
Ini baru sibuk Bible dalam Bahasa Melayu, tuhan depa pun tukaq nama bagi jadi ALLAH..as easy as how they changed their family names!ReplyDelete
Kat Negara Barat, kawin sejenis sesama penganut Agama Christian pun dah dihalalkan.
Raja2 Omputih dulu, tukaq2 kandungan isi Bible ikut rentak suka cara hidup mereka.
....Some Japanese believe that Jesus was buried in Shingo in Aomori Prefecture. Their belief is based on a theory that Jesus's younger brother was the one who was crucified at Calvary and Jesus fled the Roman Empire via Central Asia and Siberia and settled in Northern Honshu, where he married a local woman, fathered three daughters and lived to the age of 106. He now is believed to be buried under a cross on hill in Shingo on land that belonged one of his descendant, Toyoji Sawaguchi.
Tak standardize ker Bible mereka ni semua? Main sesuka hati kepala otak mereka saja ker? Tak lama lagi jenuh, kat sini entah apa lagi yang depa nak tukaq?
Macam dah melelong tak tau arah tuju, sampaikan padri sewenang2nya sodomized budak2 lelaki, dalam kawasan gereja pulak tu..
issshhhh, LOKLAQ ler..
Lho, khok ribut-ribut. Ternyata Al Kitab tersebut adalah dalam Bahasa Indonesia; bukan dalam Bahasa Melayu dan bukan juga dalam Bahasa Malaysia.ReplyDelete
@ Anonymous 6:45 pmReplyDelete
Please try to keep your emotions under control and refrain from putting forward such a ridiculous assumption. You are speaking of a completely hypothetical situation.
No Christian in Malaysia has ever done something so disrespectful - to use the kalimat Allah in such a manner.
Why? Respect for Islam as a religion. Respect for our Muslim brothers and sister. Please keep your comments sensible so we can appreciate and respect them. If you cannot, please refrain from commenting.
To fellow readers asking the question why the Bible should be translated in to Bahasa Malaysia / Bahasa Melayu(whichever you prefer), please see the comment by Anonymous @ 5:21ReplyDelete
The comment is even in BM so that the majority will be able to understand. Strange how no one has bothered to refute the comment.
Let's please try to keep all comments civilized, intelligent and rational.
you semananjung people are all fucking ignorant! east malaysia sudah memakai bahasa sabah/indonesia before we join malaya 1963! Alkitab been printed years before we join malaya! why are semananjung people are so bloody stupid???ReplyDelete
I don't see the US, where conservative columnists, talkshow hosts and pastors regularly assail Islam and it's association with militant terrorism, going to the extent of Korans in the country having to be stamped with serial numbers and the words "for Muslims only" before allowing them to be circulated or distributed.ReplyDelete
So why is Malaysia's Home Ministry doing this to the Malay-language Bibles impounded at Port Klang?
Or is it because Muslims are free to proselytise, but not the adherents of other religions?
Using the US as an example again, there are conversions going on in both directions between Christians and Muslims, without any whisper of controversy, apart from the conservative elements I referred to above.
And the US is not going to hell in a handbasket, regardless of the antics of Charlie Sheen!
apalah,,,,we r 1malaysia....so respect all malaysian people...don be so rude.....understand the meaning of 1malaysia...now all indian and chinese read malay newspaper n book....so don talk about it without know it.....guna otak sikit...ok..ReplyDelete
i m malaysian
While im happy to be criticized,i really hate to being ridiculed at.The "Please remove your brains from your bra and put it back into your head" is so uncalled for. We are mature adults here, and if we cant agree on something, atleast we can agree to disagree. But to other comments regarding mine, thanks heaps :)ReplyDelete
I have a lot of christian friends.I have no problem with christianity as long as my right as a muslim is preserved. I have no problems with bible for christians.All i care about is for the book to not be translated to Malay. Just because there are no Malay Christian, at least that is what my constitution says (but some idiot claimed that i didnt read my country's constitution!) If was born as an Arab and there are no such thing as Christian Arab, yes i will be very furious if there
I swear that im not playing the racism card, so forgive me if i sounds like i do because that's never my intention. But I'm surprised by the condemnation by the non-malay to those who opposed to the idea of translating the Bible into malay language. While they themselves greatly resist any notions to change the bahasa pengantar of the school to Bahasa Melayu, instead sticking to Bahasa Cina atau Tamil.
Things like "to keep the purity of our education", "it is in the constitution" etc are used as the excuses.But when i want to "keep the purity of the Malay race as a Muslim", of quote the constitution on the terms Malay, i was deemed told to get myself out of the coconut shell? Hmm. IMHO, the "i insist that bible should be written in malay but not as bahasa pengantar of my education" is like "i agree to rape as long as im not the one being raped".
There lots of things which are not in the constitution, but we do them anyway because of what it implies, while not directly says. Like azan in TV, are there anything directly related written in the constitution? Nope, but all of the Malaysians agree to it anyway.
As such, just translate the Bible into the language of the race of those who actually read them.
Artikel 160 Perlembagaan Malaysia mentakrifkan pelbagai istilah yang digunakan dalam Perlembagaan Malaysia. Menurut Perkara 160 (2) Perlembagaan Malaysia, orang Melayu itu mestilahReplyDelete
- beragama Islam,
- mengamalkan adat budaya Melayu, - bertutur menggunakan bahasa Melayu dan
- lahir sebelum hari merdeka sama ada di Tanah Melayu atau Singapaura, atau pada hari merdeka telah bermastautin di Tanah Melayu atau Singapura.
Kewujudan Perkara 160 (2) yang berkaitan dengan pemberian hak-hak istimewa ini perlu dilihat dan difahami daripada perspektif sejarah.
im a 3rd generation arab descent. My grandfather migrated to this region. His 1st langauge was arabic and 2nd langauge was malay. My father was equally conversant in both. I grew up in such an environment. So let me confirm that Allah is arabic, Tuhan is Malay and God is English. Why christians in this country insist on using Allah and Alkitab for a malay bible is incomprehensible. Those are arabic words and we do have malay equivalents. Why not use themReplyDelete
Just to clarify, the masses in the churches in Sarawak is conducted in Bahasa Malaysia for the ethnics (Iban, Bidayuh, Orang Ulu etc). God is referred as Allah as they're using the Bahasa Indonesia Bible. I don't think we'd easily get confused to the extent can't differentiate both. The Al Quran translation is still in Arabic with the translation. No way if you understand your Al Quran by heart. How nice if we can read the Holy Scriptures like story books. Anyway, we should be thankful the Christians didn't demand the Arabic Bible with the Malay translation. Otherwise most of us would freak, shriek...!ReplyDelete
Anon 6:45 PMReplyDelete
Are you seriously that followers of other religions don't take their faiths seriously?
That mindset must be a by-blow of the Crusades where both sides took their faiths very, very seriously.
And those behind the 9/11 attacks also took their faith very, very seriously.
As do those who claim allegiance to the Jemaah Islamiya!
>> Lady J @ 4:53pmReplyDelete
Thank you for your additional comments and justification.
Firstly, you need to consider if the Bibles in question are printed in Malay or Bahasa Indonesia. The Alkitab in question were printed in Indonesia. Of course there are similarities between the 2 languages, but, for the sake of your argument, let's assume we are talking about Bibles printed in Malay.
I do not believe that we can restrict the usage of the Malay language according to what you have prescribed. Why?
Bahasa Melayu / Bahasa Malaysia is the official language of our country. We spend a minimum of 11 years(until Form 5)in our national schools receiving our education in the Malay language. University students receive their education in the Malay language. Every form of correspondence/paperwork that involves dealing with Government departments is in Malay. In short, BM touches the lives of ALL Malaysians EVERYDAY.
Having the Bible printed in Malay does NOT diminish your rights as a Muslim. WHY do you say this and HOW do you justify this?
While I agree that there are no Malay Christians, there are many Christians who use the Malay language in their worship. It has been happening in East Malaysia for many, many years. Surely, you are not ignorant of this fact?
Please refer to Anonymous @ 5:21 am
Please refer to Anonymous @ 9:41 pm
Finally, if you would be so kind, please refer to my posting at 2:55 am and let me know what your thoughts are. Thank you.
Hello Lady J.ReplyDelete
Yes, I do believe some commenters have reacted inappropriately to you.
But keep in mind as I said at 9:41, not all Malaysian Christians are Chinese or Indian. In fact the majority (~60%) is Bumiputera Orang Asli (Semenanjung), Iban, Bidayuh, KDM, etc as some peoples here said.
They communicates mainly in BM. Surely they should not be denied their right to worship in their language?
I hope this discussions enlighten you and other readers/comenters.
I note that you avoided answering one of Skilly's questions which was why the Koran can be translated into other languages, but not the Bible into Malay.
And why proselytising is a one-way street.
Care to elaborate?
As for Perwira, his buffoonery is par for the course!
Surah 2:139 Qul 'atu-haaajjuu-nanaa fillaahi wa Huwa Rabbunaa wa Rabbukum....ReplyDelete
Say, (Prophet) (to the Jews and Christians), 'How can you argue with us about Allah when He is our Lord (God) and your Lord (God)....'
Al Baqarah contains over 200 verses admonishing the Jews and the Christians. Surely, Allah did not meant for the Jews and Christians to read the Quran?
Surah 2:2 This is the Book containing guidance for those who fear Allah....
It is clear Allah meant for the Muslims to obtain quidance from the Quran on how to lead their life. Surely, if we read Al Baqarah, it is clear that Allah is telling us not to behave like the Jews and the Christians of Medinah when Muhammad (pbuh) went to them with his Message.
Allah is telling us not to be arrogant. Allah is telling us not to be self-righteous. Allah is telling us not to mock those who believes in Allah. Tepuk dada, are we not behaving like the Medinah Jews and Christians today towards our Christian cousins? Let us show them the right path , the straight path, let us show them how they have been led astray by our actions and behaviour and conduct.
Please do not listen to the political uztaz too much and in the case of the Christians, to the activist and political priests. They will lead us astray.
Anon 2:32 PMReplyDelete
Thank u for the comment.Let me iterate again that i dont like bible to be translated into malay language,but i wont lose sleep over this.Thinsg will just go its merry ways,and yeah,the only things i can control regarding this issues is myself and probably people close to me.At least while they are still close to me.
I would probably link this to the other 2 things i dont like;gambling and booze drinking.Yeah,i dont like both of those too.And if i can have my way,probably those two to be illegal in Malaysia,ever.As a thought all muslims should entertain.
But i know that it's allowed to the non-muslim,so i understand the reasons why it's allowed to stay.I can tolerate that,but by god i shouldnt be forced to like it,right?
Unfortunately,while both of them are permissible only to the non-muslims,i know that some..no,a lot of muslims choose them as a lifestyle,no matter what the punishment dished out to them.And i can see this happening related the bible being written in Malay language.So forgive me for being so protective as a malay and a muslim.
I cannot offer any alternatives to gambling and booze drinking.Probably substitute them to going fishing or drink tomato juice instead,but the feelings offered are probably not the same.But there are alternatives to Bible being written in Malay,such as...not being written in Malay?Perhaps their own mother's tongue?Malaysia is not like indonesia where the language is totally implemented such that all my indonesian friends regardless of the race are conversing like they are born with it.Well they are born with it per say,but u get what i mean.Its not like the all sabahans and the sarawakians are chatting with their friends and families in malay in their daily lives,but suddenly the Bible they read outside of their daily schooling must be in malay language no matter what?
As such,yes im not fond of a malay bible,but again i wont lose sleep over this,and if it's what agreed upon,i will just have to keep my finger crossed,and hope the decision is for the best.But again i just dont want to be wrestled into loving it,and mark my word,Malay muslims are going to read them,and...
Anon 2:56 PMReplyDelete
"you semananjung people are all fucking ignorant!"
If you really must curse us could you at least spell semenanjung correctly? Seriously, it's very annoying to be cursed at with the wrong name. Twice. Bugs the hell out of us.
Actually, we prefer Tanah Melayu but according to the non Malays, pigs will fly the day they use that name. Oh well.
Comme ci, comme ca
So, you were saying?
Bible translations into Bahasa Melayu are OK.ReplyDelete
But if they then use this permission to DEMAND the use of the kalimah ALLAH for such BM translations,
then their real malicious intent will have been proven beyond reasonable doubt.
The semantic meaning of God is Tuhan in BM not Allah.
If these kisau evangelists still demand such "privilege" then haul them to court and charge for subversion.
I'm a sarawakian malay and muslim of course. I normally stay at hotels here in Sarawak when i have to travel and guess what, there are Bibles in the hotel and some in bahasa Melayu/indonesia. I read them, read in detail but how come i don't feel like want to convert eh?
If we malay sarawak getting confuse of this malay bible, it would have happened long time ago. If we are easily converted because of the confusion after reading Allah in bible, you would see a lot of christian malay in sarawak but it didn't happen.
I have to say this - you orang melayu semenanjung suka sangat nak wat gempaq.
Lady J 6:59 PMReplyDelete
Why not end your tantalising statement "mark my word, Malay muslims (sic) are going to read them, and..." with your conclusion?
Are you suddenly so shy as to not follow your thought processes and your post to it's (in your opinion) logical conclusion?
Or is it a case of "beware ye of little faith..."?
Which begs the question of why their faith is so "little" to start with?
Tiada apa yg pelik kalau bible (Al-Kitab) dlm Bahasa Melayu (ataupun ahli politik suka pggl Bahasa Malaysia. @Anon dlm post ke-3 ckp repot dlm Bahasa Malaysia. Kelakar, dah bahasa tu mmg Bahasa Melayu, yg pggl Bahasa Malaysia tu ahli politik. Cuba pergi ke negara China atau India, diaorg pggl bahasa diaorg Bahasa India atau Cina ke?)
Saya ada masa baca juga Bible tp dalam Bahasa Inggeris lah sbb BM xde. Okay je saja jadi Muslim. W/pun x dinafikan ada agenda atau sbb2 tertentu kenapa pihak Kristian bersungguh-sungguh memperjuangkan nak ceta Bible dlm BM. Alah, biarkanlah. Nak beriman ke tidak bukan sbb bahasa tp sbb Allah. Yg bagi petunjuk tu Allah.
Anon 6:57 PMReplyDelete
I am confused. Aren't Jews and Christians also "People of the Book"?
And were not the Jews worshipping a monotheistic God before everyone else? The God of Abraham, the God of Isaac...
And the Christians have their Ten Commandments, the first of which states unequivocally, if memory serves me right, that "I am the Lord Thy God, you shall not have strange gods before Me."
Seems to me that all a lot of people claim exclusivity in addressing the Almighty/God, as if He is bothered about semantics instead of what is truly in a person's heart.
casey n Skilgannon1066ReplyDelete
i have also read the english bible during my stay at some hotels,and yeah im not moved. not to say that it's the bible or that my faith is too strong, but yeah..
but can i control my fellow muslims? or even my future children? that is beyond my power.
both muslims and christians, as well as other religions, have their own deviant teachings. teachings of which, may seems incomprehensibly stupid to us, how different there are to our religions that it begs believes on how on earth could they attract so much followers. like ayah pin, or cult suicides such as
so please dont tell me on how little the faith is or how that i suka bikin gempak.
and this arguments remind me again on opium war waged in china. on how opium was 1st banned by the the government, but slowly and steadily being introduced with sugar coatings, on how it's not that dangerous nor addictive, while promoting the leisure it will bring. which finally crippled china to become a sleeping dragon for years to come. which should have been stopped tenaciously if only times can be turned back. and which we should have take lessons from on how "its just a small thing", "it wont change anything", "we are stronger than that" and all those decisions will have severe impact on the future of our generations.
skewedmoron and sillywolf appear together
are these 2 using the same ip address??
maybe they are twin females??
Anon 1:57 AMReplyDelete
Purely fortuitous or a matter of deep conspiracy involving clandestine postings from shielded proxy addresses hosted by anonymous servers?
Take your pick!
Your reasoning and analysis are flawed.
Please explain why there is an open rift between Sunni Muslims and Shi'ite Muslims to the extent that, in Bahrain at least, the Shi'te majority is complaining about oppression by the Sunni minority. Or why Shi'ite Iran is on a seeming collision with the Sunni Gulf states, most of which have substantial Shi'ite minorities.
I am delighted that you read the English language version of the Bible and were not moved, at least by the majesty of the prose therein.
So, are you castigating your fellow Muslims as persons of "little faith" in that the weaker-minded amongst them could be unduly influenced by the Bible (be it in English, Malay, Bahasa Indonesia, Japanese or Swahili) to move over to the "dark side"?
Which begs the question - why the "little faith"?
Lady J kata:ReplyDelete
"As such,yes im not fond of a malay bible,but again i wont lose sleep over this,and if it's what agreed upon,i will just have to keep my finger crossed,and hope the decision is for the best.But again i just dont want to be wrestled into loving it,and mark my word,Malay muslims are going to read them,and...6:59 PM"
Risau tentang Bible di dalam BM? Tetapi ... apa maksudnya ini ...i will just have to keep my finger crossed ...
Yang membuatkan Muslim Melayu tersasul sebenarnya ialah Bahasa Inggeris dan budaya bahasanya ...
Lebih 20 tahun yang lampau, saya pernah diberi sesalinan kitab "Injil" (dalam Bahasa Indonesia) semasa di university di USA. Apabila melihat nama "Allah" untuk merujuk Tuhan Jesus agama Christian, saya ketepikan terjemahan tersebut. Perasaan saya? Sangat rasa terhina dewasa itu sebab tujuan pemberian itu ialah untuk mengajak saya kepada mereka ... Knowing that I am a Muslim and a Malay.
Jadi seeloknya kita faham dan fahamkan ALLAH HU AHAD. Tidak sama seperti yang pembaca kitab Injil fahami. Mudahan kita sentiasa dalam hidayah ALLAH SWT Yang Maha Esa, dan mereka-mereka yang lain finds the truth that their hearts sincerely seek.
Anon 6:57 PM
I am confused. Aren't Jews and Christians also "People of the Book"?
Precisely. Allah has revealed unequivocally that He is the god of the Believers and the Jews and the Christians.
It is the political ulama who have changed Allah's words.
Allah has revealed that the Christians have gone astray and admonishes them and ask them to return to Islam.
Allah has never said that by going astray they have become musyrik (idolators) or that by going astray they began believing in a god other than Allah.
For the Christians, you know full well the objective and role of political priests. You will have to decide whether they represent the words of Allah in the bible.
Anon 6:57 PMReplyDelete
If you look at the historical timeline, the Jews were worshipping a monotheistic Supreme Being who they addressed as Yahweh.
This was way before Christianity and Islam appeared on the scene.
So, who has the message of "eternal life"? You will have to forgive the Christians if they believe that they do, which resonates across all the branches of Christianity.
In Islam, as I pointed out to Lady J, you have a dichotomy between the Sunnis and the Shi'ites, although both profess to be Muslims. Who is right, and who is wrong?
you have a dichotomy between the Sunnis and the Shi'ites, although both profess to be Muslims. Who is right, and who is wrong?
There is no dichotomy between the Sunnis and the Shi'ites in the Quran. In fact they didn't even exist in the time of the Prophet (pbuh).
It is the political ulama who created the dichotomy then, as now. The latest blatant example is what I read that the Saudi ulamas have issued a fatwa that demonstration is against Islam!
As for the Jews and Christians, in the case of the Christians there's a New Covenant and the Old Covenant. The New Covenant simply requires one to 'accept' Jesus and you are assured of 'eternal life'. The Jews of course rejected the New Covenant as so much hogwash; they prefer to suffer for their sins on their own, rather than have someone else suffer on their behalf.
Many Muslims harp on the Old Testament when critising the present day Christians, not realising that the Old Testament to the Christians is just a historical filler to their faith; being the Old Covenant, and misses the mark.
The moral and ethical teachings of the bible should be acceptable to Muslims. But what Muslims cannot accept is the Trinity.
APALAH YANG KORANG BISING SANGAT NI...? KORANG INGAT KALAU AL-QUR'AN ATAU BIBLE TU, GUNA BAHASA MELAYU...BOLEH BUAT PERUBAHAN IMAN SESEORANG KE? KORANG NAK GADUH NI PASAL APE? KALAU KORANG BETUL BERIMAN,KORANG PATUT BERSEDIA DUNIA DAN AKHIRAT UNTUK MENDAPAT TEMPAT DI SYURGA NANTI. SAYA PERCAYA, AGAMA KRISTIAN DAN ISLAM PERCAYA PADA ALLAH KERANA NAK KAN SYURGA.....! BIARLAH APA NAK JADI DI DUNIA NI.....KAN ITU KHABAR BAIK KEPADA SEMUA UMAT YANG PERCAYA.....KERANA PENGAKHIRAN ZAMAN DAH HAMPIR DAN MENAMPAKKAN KEBENARAN DALAM APA YANG TERTULIS DAN TERKANDUNG DALAM BUKU SUCI MASING2? SEBENARNYA...APA YANG KORANG BUAT NI,AKAN MEMBAWA KEPADA SIFAT MUNAFIK, BENCI-MEMBENCI DAN BOLEH MENDATANG BAHAYA KEPADA IMAN MASING2....!
MAAFLAH....KALAU ADA PARA SAHABAT YANG TERASA, SAYA HANYA TAK SUKA DIMANA TEMPAT YANG KITA DUDUK DAN TINGGAL INI, YANG BEGITU AMAN SEJAK DARI PENGAKHIRAN PERANG DUNIA KEDUA....BERULANG LAGI DISEBABKAN KEBODOHAN MASING2.
KALAU BETUL NAK SELAMAT, JANGAN LAH KAMU HINA-MENGHINA SESAMA SENDIRI. TAK KIRALAH BANGSA MAUPUN AGAMA TAK SAMA PUN....!
BERFIKIRLAH SECARA MENDALAM....DAN KALAU KAMU BERIMAN, CUBA BERDOA KEPADA ALLAH MASING2...DAN MINTA PETUNJUK.
kenapa mau kecoh kalau orang Kristian di malaysia(trutama skali pribumi sabah dan sarawak) , dengan menggunakn Bm memanggil gelaran Tuhan yg di sembah; Allah?ReplyDelete
jadi skarang ni, anda 'mendua' kan Allah? Allah Islam, dan Allah Kristian?
Adakah "Allah" itu suatu nama?
adakah "Allah" itu suatu agama?
Adakah Tuhan/ Allah mencipta agama? atau pengikut2 nya yang cipta agama?
sekira nya anda memanggil bapa anda dengan dengan panggilan "Papa,daddy,ayah" atau dengan menggunakan bahasa cina,tamil, enlgish, akan menjadikan bapa anda adalah orang yang lain-lain bangsa?
adakah anda akan menggantikan nama "ayah" kepada "daddy" sekira nya anda di minta menulis karangan, surat rasmi dalam bahasa malaysia, hanya kerana "daddy" adalah gelaran yang paling hormat untuk anda memanggil ayah anda di rumah?