Tuesday, March 08, 2011

Arms contract and arm-chair critics

Army gets 257 APCs. Quite funny listening in to BFM's morning talk yesterday. The host and guests were happily bitching about the news about Tan Sri Syed Mokthar's DRB Hicom Bhd being awarded a RM7.55 billion contract to supply armoured personnel carriers to our Army by 2016. (Read the story here). The chatter went, more or less, like this:

"That's RM200 million for each vehicle!" 
"That is too expensive!" 
"We are not at war, why are we spending so much?!" 
"How come we don't hear the government spending this kind of money on education?!" 

And then one of the dudes realized they'd made a grave mistake. He must have brought out his calculator and divided RM7.5 billion by 257 (the number of vehicles under the contract), which gave him RM30 million a vehicle. Not RM200 million. 

Awkward seconds later ...
"Oh, we stand corrected". ".... it's RM30 million not RM200 million". "RM30 million?!" "Wow! That is still so much money!!" 
Blah blah blah.

My point is, some people will oppose something even if it's good or even if their basis for opposing it is wrong, simply because their minds have been made up for them. 

But for DRB shareholders, who barely a year ago had decried the company for not making their shares sexy to shareholders, the contract is a boon. The stock has appreciated by more than 80 per cent. The contract will have a minimum of 20% local content, with Malaysia having the rights to sell and market the APCs as their own in the international market. It will create about 500 jobs in Pekan, Pahang and provide indirect employment for thousands of others. DRB will be forking out up front as much as RM3 billion to ensure the contract runs smoothly.

Like all defence projects, the contract is bound to raise the ire of arm-chair critics like myself, and others. The betting man would not want to wager against Syed Mokhtar against delivering his end of the bargain, though, considering his track record. Remember Tanjung Pelepas? Against heavy odds, the tycoon staked almost his entire fortune to build Malaysia's largest container port which today counts Maersk Sealand, the world's largest container ship operator, as one of its clients.

p.s. I'll be listening in to 89.9 again this morning; it is after all my favorite radio station. But for the son of the guns who are jumping the gun and saying that Malaysia is spending too much on defence, please remember Singapore is in the Top Ten list of arms dealers in the world. 


  1. Anonymous8:30 am

    they can say whatever they want. in the end, its the experts and policy makers in the Defense Ministry to decide whether the purchase is worthwhile or not for our country.

  2. Anonymous8:39 am

    isayman, ini bfm pakatan rakyat punye stasion kah?

  3. Anonymous9:12 am

    Arms Contract-Theft and UMNO ass-lickers.


  4. mustaqim9:19 am

    expose Malaysia un arm compared to other neigbhor country will make malaysia as sitting duck...

    malaysia has been blessed with peaceful...but good weather doesnt come all way through ur life not even in a single day...

    simple scenario....suddenly biggest cube in north atlantik melt...we ae talking about size of australia...definitely singapore will dissappeear from world map...

    where can singaprean go??where can they park all they tank, their bomb, fighter, scud, missile, million of army....malaysia of course.....

    what maalysia have to say no....keris indeed...

  5. Of course! why spend so much on defence as we are not at war?

    Why can't we just build the APCs and other military equipment ad hoc when the enemy is knocking at our door? Just In Time (JIT) maaa...

    Heck, we can just get these armchair critics to operate these machines when the time comes. Why bother with warfare cost training? Its just like playing PS3 whaat..

    Its just that you can't operate an APC with a comfy chair and stuffing your face silly with food.

    Furthermore, I don't agree with these National Service training module in teaching our kids to use the obsolete M16(aargh!! God Forbid!). Pegang bendera sudah lah.

    After all, we have very friendly and militarily competent neighbours kan??

  6. ShokBOTAK9:36 am

    Rocky Bro, Singapore is in the Top Ten list of arms dealers in the world.

    What does this mean.??????

  7. Anonymous9:43 am

    In times of war,
    These people will only need Tongkangs to flee the country.

    Belli cheap..
    Skillyanon waiting over there sum more!



  8. Anonymous9:55 am

    Clever man. So lending his private jet for use by Najib, Tun M and family served its purpose.

  9. Anonymous10:08 am

    Who wants to bet that the following will happen:

    1. Most of the money will be paid out to DRB Hicom before actual production.

    2. There won't be any serious supervision of the production or periodic reports of progress.

    3. DRB Hicom's first few units will be plagued with problems, which somehow will get swept under the carpet.

    4. After less than 30 pct of the units are produced, the production gets halted because of safety or reliability issues.

    5. Government terminates the contract, but doesn't say anything about recovering the amounts already paid.

    See, Rocky, I have already written the standard Barisan Nasional script for you. Make a note of it, please.


  10. BENatang1010:52 am

    BN spend RM30millions per APC for a peaceful Malaysia...

    School children begging for donations in the name of school building fund were a common sight at pasar pagi, Malaysia cam ni Boleh kah???

  11. Anonymous11:00 am

    The MoD is great place to make and distribute money bro. As a blogger you should fight excesses.

  12. Salam Datuk,

    Me thinks all that money would be better spent building more instuitions of higher learning. Places in public universities being a burning issue, it will alleviate the problem somewhat.

  13. Anonymous11:02 am

    1 BIC can cost RM 1.50, 1 Pilot pen, RM 4.50 and 1 Mont Blanc RM 5,000.

    1 Kuntchill RM 35,000, 1 BMW 320 RM 250,000 1 Audi R8 RM 1.35 million.

    Its the technology!

    Mat Bonk

  14. Anonymous11:16 am

    Bodoh punye Latuk. YOu think the gomen will allow us to review specifications and designs so that we can evaluate the fairness of the RM 30 million per vehicle ? Didn't your masters say that defence contracts are rahsia ? If we are all armchair critics, what are you ?


  15. If by arms dealing you meant arms spending, and Singapore among top, why should we follow blindy?

    Shouldn't we threaten Singapore's very base as Dr Mahathir did with Tg Pelepas?

    Do we lack his inventive genius?

  16. hahahhaa..

    klakau la lu bru...

    Plsss ckp la dgn geng umno DO NOT COMPARE any "advances" with our neibouring bro...

    Domestically we are away BEHINDDDDD!!!

    susah lo ini machiam negara wa kalau "org pandai" sgt berborak..


  17. ThinkOutLoud11:36 am

    I don't have the exact figure on the arms deal. But, 7.5 billion until 2016? Divide by 5 years, how much is that? 1.5 billion per annum.

    Ok, compare this to healthcare spending. Government spent 12 billion every year. both development and operational. they published it on moh website.

    education? I believe more than that. we have 2 ministries - the schools and higher educations.

    i don't know about schools. but i read in the news UTM's own allocation is about 1 billion every year. USM is also about that much. UiTM is even more. How many universities we have in the country?

    And there are other spendings too. Public Works, Welfare, and god knows what else. Compared to the one time arms purchase of 7.5 billion over the span of 5 years. Not to mention our small tax contribution (yes! very small, because the industry and businesses contributes 1000 times more than us individual. I think most of us are being unreasonable.

    We want the armed forces, the police to serve us better, yet we let them live in pre-war quarters and give them pre-war weaponry. Ok, I exaggerate a little, but my point is, please be considerate and not be an armchair critic (as Datuk Rocky said).

  18. Anonymous12:04 pm

    on the book the number is huge... but i heard the gov took years to pay drb for the handalan trucks. true?.. still the share look sexy?

  19. Anonymous12:10 pm

    sepatutnye kontrak ni dapat kat YTL or Genting ke... kalau dapat kat usaha tegas pun elok jugak, mesti boleh buat transfer technology dgn mahindra defence or tata defence solution.

  20. Anonymous12:14 pm

    Singapore is top ten arms dealer, and region's most aggresive defence build-up nation. It would therefore be in the interest of local pond-inhabitants with affinity and loyalty to the frog downstairs to criticize any defense purchases of the government, under the guise, of course, of captions like "too expensive" etc etc etc. (Heck if each of those APC we buy for like a thousand ringgit, it would still be too expensive for them, or just find anything else to discredit the government. The only purchase which is good for them is no purchase at all, so that some advantage of their masters can be established).

    Other concepts which are camouflaged by catchy phrases:-

    "Malaysian Malaysia" - A way to silence malays from asking too much of their rights (which, economically, is held at only 30%) and make them look like perpetrators, unjust, racist and downright bad.

    "Justice for TBH" - A way to divert masses from looking at the REAL perpetrators - you know, the ones who kick doors and shouted at the deceased like a few minutes before TBH jumped.

    "Rakyat" - Description of a minority of people against the gomen.

    "Sodomy Conspiracy" - A description of "I really-did-it sodomy".

    And oh yes. We as a nation can stop on Defense Expenses and concentrate on "Education, development and Space programs" and the like as soon as all our neighbours do the same. But during a time when there are 366 incursions of Malaysian Airspace per year by malevolent nations, weakening our defenses at this point is the least intelligent thing to do, even though this is what the PAP---err I mean DAP--- has been trying to portray in parliament.

    The Lion's Bane

  21. Anonymous12:19 pm

    If its their grandfathers money or from umno puki money we could'nt care a damm ! but its the taxpayers that is taken for a ride by MOF....thinking public are fcuking idiots... do not know how to calculate eh???? A simple cheapo rocket launcher from Pakistan or the talibans can easily blow away this 30 million high tech armored carrier...YOU GOT TO TO BE KIDDING....
    What is becoming of bolehland?

  22. Skilgannon106612:22 pm

    Open tender or not?

    And why Turkey as an arms partner, when Turkish PM Erdogan has been expressing some decidedly unusual views lately?

    In a recent visit to Germany, Erdogan told the Turkish community living there to teach their children the Turkish language before German. He insisted that they should integrate but not assimilate (AP report).

    If the Erdogan argument is applied to Malaysia, it would mean that the Chinese and Indian communities in the country should teach their children the Chinese and Indian mother tongues before Malay (and English). Seems to me that this is what the vernacular schools in Malaysia have been doing.

    And note "integrate but not assimilate". That means not forcing the views and mores of the majority on the minorities!

    But then, Erdogan is not exactly the flavour of the month in Malaysia, is he?

    But can still do business with his country (where secularism is jealously guarded as a way of life)? Ah, realpolitik!

  23. koalabear12:59 pm

    singapore also has better health and education. priorities rocky. blog to us when you need to go to gleneagles for your healthcare and pay thru your arse

  24. DAA!

    Perhaps one should actually post the Budget and then all {including arm chair critics} can actuall compare & analyze the expenditures {& incomes} before making remarks & comments on the air!


  25. "My point is, some people will oppose something even if it's good or even if their basis for opposing it is wrong,"
    Basis is wrong? 30 million is still expensive, even if it's an order of magnitude less than 200 million.

  26. "The contract will have a minimum of 20% local content..."

    This is Najibspeak for 80% sub-CON to foreign countries since M'sia does not have the technology. In other words, DRB will be the usual UMNO/BN rent/licence seeker earning 20% for gaji buta work.

    "The stock has appreciated 80%..."

    Yes, yes, there was one a stock which flew to $18 per share and then had to be bailed out by M'sian Taxpayer for $3 i.e. the infamous UEM, with a CEO "guaranteeing" $4 billion to investors and never got around to pay it!

    We've seen it all before haven't we, before the high and mighty take a bad and sometimes permanent fall? Tj Pelepas, IPP, AP's, MMC, JB Airports, rice, MPH bookstores, VW, Penang Port, defence procurement, MRT/LRT... what next? So diversified and trying to grab it all like UEM?

    we are all of 1 Race, the Human Race

  27. This APC deal is dodgy from the start.
    The chosen vehicle for DRB Hicom is actually the most expensive option. It also came last in field trials and is not fully amphibious like the others. The Vehicle which is a Turkish design has not even be selected as an APC for the Turkish Army. The Turret system is also an unproven turret design from South Africa. Even the South African army has chosen an OTO Malera design over their own design for their new APC order.
    Also the unit cost for these APCs are about 30% higher than the Singaporean APC which have far higher technology specs.

    Rocky - the facts are is that Malaysia spends far more per unit cost for each defence equipment than our Southern neighbour and yet they end up with far more modern and well maintained equipment than our armed forces.

    The reason is simple - there are people who are siphoning off huge amounts without caring whether our armed forces are equipped with the best and appropriate equipment.

  28. Anonymous1:17 pm

    The M1 Abrams battle tank with all its sophisticated weaponries cost about 7M USD each. How can a Malaysian APC cost 30M RM each. It just do not make sense. An APC is not as sophisticated as the M1.

    Dont you think there are many questions to be answered in this deal.

  29. We need those APCs. Big defence spending is a must to protect all that we have achieved so far.

    We can let the red dot to advance too far ahead of us. Must follow closely.
    See what they have already accomplished 3 years ago.


    I say spend it!

  30. Anonymous2:12 pm

    ni la masalah kalau rami sangat yang pandai cakap. tgk apa jadi dengan negara-negara lain di dunia yang tak jaga sempadan dengan baik?? jangan sebab politik negara tergadai brother. kalaud ah tak ada negara bole lagi ke berpolotik? boleh lagi ke cakap main sedap mulut kat radio?? p study luar negara cakap omputeh then bitching your own country. Singapore pandai..upgrade military bagi jangan ada negara yang terlebih berani serang dia. kita kena juga buat macam itu jangan esok dah ada kereta kebal, jet atas kepala baru sedar.. ohhh tentera patut belanja beli tank beli jets beli senjata..dah terlewat la dol.

  31. Skilgannon10662:58 pm

    Hey, Rocky - what is the source of your post that Singapore is among the world's top 10 arms dealers?

    According to Wikipedia, the country is not in the list of the world's top 15 arms exporters (go Google it, lah).

    So, is there a difference between "arms dealers" and "arms exporters"?

    Of course, you would be right in saying that Singapore has the biggest defence budget, as a percentage of GDP, amongst the Asean countries. And it has been openly upfront about it - witness the debate in the Singapore Parliament about the latest budget.

    Interestingly, the Singapore Navy is going to be acquiring new next-generation combat vessels. It would be interesting to see how these match up, costwise and capabilities-wise, against Malaysia's planned LCVs (Littoral Combat Vessels).

  32. Skilgannon10663:07 pm

    Check out the National Geographic Channel documentary ("From Boys To Men: Every Singaporean Son") on Singapore's National Service Training, which premieres tonight on Astro at 9:30 PM (unless it is censored or suppressed, heh heh).

    It features the 9-week Basic Military Training (BMT) that every Singapore national servicemen go through and features Third Sergeant Nabil Aliffi and his section.

    It would be interesting for the military buffs amongst us to compare Singapore's BMT for national servicemen against our own version of National Service.

    Perhaps Rocky could watch it and post a detailed critique on this blog?

  33. Anonymous4:55 pm

    Money should be used for education. Teachers need more training so that they produce better students for the universities.Also take note that schools in KL especially the older ones are in dear need of fund for repair and maintenance. PIBGs have been for so long funding some of the repairs etc.

  34. man on da street4:57 pm

    Is there any one from the fourteen commentators are ex armed forces personnel? If yes say so , if not please jangan cakap kalau bukan bidang anda! I agree arm chair crirics are just arm chair critics,thats what they do best. Has any one of you seen any actual combat? For your info , the movie Black Hawk Down was actually based on actual true story , guess what ? Its not the americans thats actually rescuing ,its the MALAYSIAN armed forces is the real heroes , but being americans and all the hollywood propagandas we dont get the credits. Back to the real scenarios, who says we are not not going to war? you, me our neighbours? Can you read our neighbours minds especially if they are economically bancrupted or lets say a highly dictatorial junta comes to power, then only mau beli senjata ka? This can happens with uncle sam backing, today my friend tomorrow I cant say, depends !Most of you has not been in actual combat, but most of us in the malaysian armed forces through United Nations has been there and and done that!So even Mogadishu is full of sophisticated weapons through whom? Please volunteer in Iraq or Afghanistan , when you guys comes home(in one piece, I hope)then talk about whether we need this kinds of weaponry or not, will you mate? Do not simply opposed if you are not sure. All the while we are living in a comfort zone, but for how long? Any one can predict accurately?

  35. Anonymous6:06 pm

    Bro, RM 30 million for each vessel with it's spec is still cheap compare to spending RM 200 million on marching to putrajaya which turns out to b just a scam.

  36. Anonymous6:16 pm

    Go and ask the CDF, he will tell you that Ministry of Defense is a gold mine!

  37. Anonymous6:22 pm

    skilgannon1066, if anwar ibrahim can run to turkish embassy, why cant drb buy APC from that country and rebrand it, and sell it here? Did you make noise when DRB won a contract from Volkswagen to assemble VW cars here? if u are a lil slow, then let me explain, the APC deal and the VW deal are the same in nature, except for VW, DRB services the public, while for the APC, they service the government. Woi, I think you are misreprenting the info.The government is not buying the APC, rather they are buying a Malaysian assembeled APC from DRB. Anywy, DRB is a public listed company, anD there is no government policy or international embargo restricting purchase of goods from Turkey.

  38. Anonymous6:28 pm

    yo bruders yg tak puas hati DRB dapat kontrek RM7.5 billion, cepatlah korek kocek dan keluarkan RM3.5 billion sebagai deposit unt jayakan projek ni tanpa DRB. U org tak erti bacake, sengaja tak mao baca, yg DRB kena down RM3.5 billion terlebeh dahlu. siape ad duit mcm tu?

  39. Anonymous6:29 pm

    skilgannon mak koa anwer ibraheem kah?

  40. Anonymous7:33 pm

    untunglah EPF milik 5 peratos DRB. Kame mao DIVIDEND cun

  41. Man an da street,
    Totally agreed with yr comment.How I wish those bloggers above have gone to see the recently Army Day static display where they ask questions esp to the Corp Armour officers and probally they will not past sweeping statements.

  42. Anonymous9:27 pm

    this is a good deal. only question here is do we have good people to manage this deal. failing which, it could well turn out to be a vey costly adventure.

  43. Anonymous9:49 pm

    if u want to participate in this billion ringgit project, just go and buy DRB shares lah. Everyone can buy regardless of race, religion, gender or political views. Yours faithfully. T S M fund Manager. ps, I hear it is THE election stock.

  44. dua sen12:05 am

    Rocky oh rocky ! Get your facts right. Who build Port Tanjung Pelepas ? Syed Mokhtar ?

  45. Anonymous12:40 am


  46. RM30 million per APC is rather expensive any which way you look at it.

    Mindef should come clean with the costing and what is the commission amount like?

  47. Anonymous4:27 am

    ALSO : ......

    For the yearly military budget as % of GDP - the Big Spenders are Myanmar (26%) followed by Jordan (10%), Georgia (8.5%), Saudi Arabia (8%), Kyrgyzstan (8%), Burundi (7.5%). Oman (6%), USA (4%), SINGAPORE (4%).


  48. My point exactly.

    These armchair critics are well just armchair critics...no value whatsoever.

    How many of them have ever been involved in any military activity or even know what a basic 5.56mm round can do?

    And no,Googling and watching Astro doesnt count.

    As much as I hate politics I take my hat off to a civilan like KJ for attending the basic paramilitary course and jumping of a plane to earn his wings.

    How many of you would take such a challenge jumping off a plane when you have a family for the sake of military training and defending the nation?

    Please don't tell it's for political mileage as training for 5weeks and parachuting off a plane is not the same as creating a rucus in a demonstration and later adjourning for some ice lemon tea and getting cheap publicity.

    Any of these obese and lethargic armchair critics done this?

    So where's the locus standi in talking about the military?

  49. Bro, is it RM7.5 billion or USD600million for the 257 Armored Combat Vehicle?

    The news from Turkish.com:

    Turkish, Malaysian companies sign $600 mln defense industry deal
    Published: 2/22/2011

    Turkish defense industry company FNSS signed Tuesday a $600 million deal with Malaysia’s DEFTECH to sell armoured combat vehicles to Malaysian military.

    Turkish Defense Minister Vecdi Gonul and his Malaysian counterpart Amhad Zahid Hamidi witnessed the signing of agreement in Ankara.

    Under the $600 million deal for the sale of 257 armoured combat vehicles, the Pars 8x8, Turkish company FNSS will design, develop and produce vehicles and provide logistics support.

    The deal is important for Turkish defense industry as it is the largest amount in defense industry exports of the country at one time.

    The 8x8 Pars armoured vehicle will be redesigned by Turkish and Malaysian engineers. Vehicles will be produced locally in Malaysia.

    Under an earlier agreement between FNSS and DEFTECH, FNSS sold 211 armoured personnel carriers to equip the Malaysian military.

    Moreover, Malaysian companies signed several defense industry agreements with other Turkish companies MIKES and TUSAS and GATES.

    read in full here:http://www.turkishpress.com/news.asp?id=364305

  50. Some people from MINDEF said that MINDEF is a "lombong emas"... that's why there are over-priced contracts awarded...

    yesterday, at seminar pemikiran Mahathir in Kangar... Gen (r) Zaini if i'm not mistaken sauiiod that Mahathir way ios not to spend huge monies on military equipments... as his policy is to prosper the neighbours when we prosper ourselves... then, I ponder to myself that it is the opposite of Najib... which is to spend big on military equipments as we are going to war... which makes our neighbours uneasy... I think that's the biggest difference between Mahathir and Najib other than Najib is so British and pro America compared to Mahathir... (in 2005, The Sun had made a report about mahathir's commment on the purchase of Hornet FA-18 when mahathir want to buy Russians made instead)

  51. Anonymous11:09 am

    ThinkOutLoud said...11.36

    Well said sir ! But these idiots will never ever be satisfied and convinced. First sign of threat , they will be the first to moan why the Government did not not spend on defense.
    These idiots should just be flushed down the sewer...which, by the way, where they belonged !


  52. Anonymous11:18 am

    Deal signed with Turkey = US$600m = RM1.82 billion. Deal awarded to DRB = RM7.55bn. Mark up = 412%. Wow, RM1.82bn for the equipment, and RM5.73bn for maintenance?

    I will do it for half the price DRB quoted.

  53. Anonymous11:41 am

    EDDY, it is RM7.5 billion. Pls refer to the Bursa announcement.

  54. Anonymous11:44 am

    Whats the markup I wonder? Check this article out

  55. Razif1:42 pm

    The debate is not whether we need equipment - the debate is value for money and this is where we fail.
    Malaysian pays more per unit price because its marked up for brokers and dealers. Projects are not tendered and contracts awarded that can give inducements.

    Singapore tests the products and acquire the best at best value.
    Witness the fact that Singapore bought upgraded Leopard 2 Tanks with new armour and hi-tech digital management systems and at cheaper unit price than Malaysia did for our Polish made Pendekar tanks. The Polish army does not even use that tank as its decades old technology. And guess what.... as part of their entry into NATO the Poles bought Leopard 2 tanks.
    The leopard 2 outguns and out maneuvers a Polish tank easily.

    So we end up with a second rate tank at BMW prices while Singapore gets a BMW tank at Proton prices.

  56. Anonymous3:07 pm

    Tolong bagi kerja pada kontraktor-kontraktor yang semakin tenat di Malaysia ni. Bayangkan sebijik armor car RM200 juta boleh beri kontrak RM10 juta kepada 20 kontraktor untuk projek selama 2 tahun. Dalam satu projek terdapat ramai pekerja, setiap pekerja ada ramai ahli keluarga. Kami pekerja ni dah nak dibuang kerja kerana tiada projek... Bantu lah..

  57. "So we end up with a second rate tank at BMW prices while Singapore gets a BMW tank at Proton prices"

    Exactly the point Mr Razif.

  58. Anonymous4:28 pm

    Eddy, if u buy one nokia phone of say model X at RM1000, and I buy 10,000 nokia phone at RM300 a phone of also model X. Indeed you are getting a second rate phone at BMW prices while I'm getting a BMW at Proton prices.
    Eddy, you must understand this is what we call economies of scale. Singapore is among the top ten arm merchants in the world. We are NOT.

    Soldier of Fortune

  59. Anonymous4:33 pm

    EDDY, i believe the US$600 million is only the Turkish part of the contract. That portion does not include the pattern rights for the APC's or for DRB or the Malaysian government to sell the APC abroad as a Malaysian product.
    For example, Eddy if you were to buy a Michael Jackson CD, it might cost you less than RM50. But if you want to buy the pattern RIGHTS to the Michael Jackson CD, it might cost you well over RM1 billion.

    Its me Boss

  60. Anonymous4:35 pm


    It's chicken feed that amount.

    Singapore get to spend 12.5 billion dollars in 2011. It's about time Malaysia beef up its military to be on par with Singapore. If not in any negotiation,Malaysia will be cowed into accepting less than favourable deal.

    Replace all the obsolete weapons with newer and up to date ones,and see whether our southern neighbor reacted differently and maybe for once they will be offering us some southern comfort hospitability and attitude.


  61. Skilgannon10668:07 pm


    The Singapore Navy makes do with 2nd hand refurbished submarines from Sweden whilst the Malaysian Navy has brand new Scorpene subs.

    Value for money?

    I believe that the Singapore Army also operates 2nd hand refurbished tanks?

  62. Anonymous9:33 pm


  63. Anonymous11:48 pm

    skilganon if u believe so much in singapore, just go live there lah.

  64. Anonymous9:27 am



    Nobody wants to go to war with Singapore lor..Where got natural resources. Dlinking water aloso dont have sum more. Waste time only..

    Mainly immigrants,foreign nationals holding PR or foreign labours like Skilly annon.

    Dat one not considered natural resources lor..All jump into tongkangs and flee ebeliwear wan..

    People interested in Gaza, Iran, Iraq and Afgan and all the Arab cuntelies.. They want what is underneath those cuntelies.



  65. Its me Boss,

    What is bugging me with your response is that are we buying military assets for our soldiers' defense and offensive capabilities or is it about selling other country's military hardware as our own?

    Why do we have to buy patent rights to sell it for them?

    Why don't they just setup an office in Malaysia and sell the APCs themselves?

    USD600million for design, develop and manufacture of 257 APCs yes?

    So what about the remainder RM7.5billion(USD2.4 Billion)- USD600million = USD 1.8 Billion is for patent rights to sell the APCs?I don't know.

    Mindef needs to be transparent on the cost issue. Malaysians have the right to know how their money are spent. The days of the Government knowing what is best is over since March 2008.

  66. Seolferwulf10:46 am


    Sorry, lah - Malaysia got budget deficit of 5% of GDP, some more it's bonds are lower-rated than Petronas bonds. Singapore? Minimal budget deficit and Triple-A rated all the way ( without a Petronas godfather to stump up 40% of govt revenue)!

    Nope - wouldn't be a fair fight at all!


  67. Singapimp1:10 pm

    Singapore has been listed as a main pimping country by the US.

    The Chinese triad are in control of prostitution kidnapping women from Malaysia etc..

    Beware for Malaysian women..wiht the casinos more prostitutes are wanted for the punters

  68. Anonymous1:27 pm

    Skilgannon1066 said...

    .... The Singapore Navy makes do with 2nd hand refurbished submarines.

    Belli good like that wan,

    Waa enemy come TO attack, see see.. luk luk ebeliwear nobody on the land, all hide in submarine! Enuf place for skillyanon aloso..



  69. Skilgannon10663:12 pm

    Perwira 1:27 PM

    Again, I ask - what point are you trying to make?

    Failing to rebut on facts, you are resorting to cheap, infantile humour?

    It's a fact that Singapore acquired refurbished submarines from Sweden. And that Malaysia acquired new Scorpene subs.

    And that Singapore is replacing it's US-sourced M-113 armoured personnel carriers (APCs) with home-grown products (Bionix and Bronco) from ST Kinetics. Incidentally, these Singapore-developed APCs are being bid, in co-operation with a Turkish company, for a big APC procurement by the Turkish Army.

    But Singapore also got new F-16s, F-15s and Apache attack helicopters from the US. All openly tendered, with clear and transparent procurement processes, processes which have been highly rated by international defence analysts.

    Whereas, in Malaysia, the Next Generation Patrol Vessels (NGPV) have somehow mysteriously been transmuted into Second Generation Patrol Vessels - Littoral Combat Ships (SGPV-LCS).

    Never mind the fact that the whole subject of Littoral Combat Ships (LCS) has been mired in controversy. You can Google to read about the problems the US Navy has gone through in it's own LCS acquisition program. One of which is that there are readily available technologies and platforms available already.

    Are the "brains" in the RMN and Mindef any better at defence procurements than their counterparts in the US Navy and the Pentagon?

  70. Anonymous4:23 pm

    Eddy, I think they need the rights so that eventually the can be sold as Malaysian goods abroad, for the export market.
    Malaysia is aiming for leadership role in the Islamic world, and the idea is to use this role to sell Malaysian made military hardware like the APC to the Arabs.
    Eventually, we can use the basic technology to build our own APC's to the outside world.

    Its me Boss

  71. Seolferwulf7:16 pm

    Patent rights? That's gobbledygook!

    What's to prevent the Turkish company from selling it's APCs to Arab countries? Is there a non-compete agreement or exclusivity given to DRB-Hicom?

    More to the point, was there a competitive evaluation of available APCs on the market before the decision to choose the Turkish product?

    Hey, Israel has some of the best APC technology in the market! As does the US, Brazil, the UK and France.

  72. Seolferwulf9:23 pm

    I think that the Arabs will still prefer to buy arms from the US and the EU.

    Ain't no way the big defence contractors are going to give up on the Middle East market.

    Maybe can sell to Indonesia, what!

  73. Anonymous11:21 pm

    haiyaa... ramainya yang tak faham bahasa dalam komen ni...

    ni sure ramai chinese kot yg tak pernah nak ambik tahu pasal berapa msia spend on health services, berapa spend on education...etc.

    itulah, lain kali jangan ikut macam tony pua... yg kononnya pandai, tapi bila kita cakap dengan facts, lari lintang pukang...


  74. Anonymous1:14 am


    Who is interested to go to war with Singapore? Waste time only, there is just nothing there.

    China is expected to launch its fifth lunar probe, Chang'e-5,in 2017. India has launched over 50 satellite's and the last known was IMS-1.

    Ahso kat Singapore so busy trying to impress the world that Singapore bought 2nd-hand submarine..

    Haiyaaa, Why tok tok big like that wan, after people hear shy lor..



  75. Seolferwulf12:37 pm


    Maybe, but who backed down when certain idiots in Umno threatened to cut off water supplies to Singapore and LKY said "no way, Jose"?

    Something that Mahathir conveniently ignored in his memoirs!

    And the way the Americans, Brits, Indians, Japanese and Indians are pouring FDI into Singapore, they must be feeling mighty secure being protected by an SAF with refurbished subs and battle tanks! While drinking desalinated water and Newater!

  76. Anonymous10:34 pm

    Singapore survives by getting large arms contract direct from US government. They are the biggest manufacturer and supplier of land and sea mines in the world. And the mines are illegal according to international law and United Nation resolutions.

  77. Seolferwulf8:32 pm

    Anon 10:34 PM

    If what you have posted is correct, then how come that Singapore hasn't been called to account by the UN or the international arms control agencies?

    And what is the source of your statement that Singapore has got large defence procurement contracts from the US? Examples?

    If anything, it's the other way around with Singapore buying arms from the US - like F-16s, F-15s, E-2Cs, KC-130s, Apache attack helicopters etc.

    It's obvious that you don't know anything about arms procurements!

    Why not compare how much Malaysia paid for it's Scorpene subs against what Singapore paid for refurbished 2nd-hand subs from Sweden?

    Maybe Perwira can help you do the research.

  78. I still think BFM's journos are biased in most of their analysis, I notice 1 of the journos will always say Msia is doomed, but any kwailo come and talk to them about their countries, they'll get the red carpet treatment. Sigh, but same as you, will still be listening to them, coz, some of their info are still the best...

  79. Anonymous12:31 pm

    The 2nd hand subs is to liplace the Tongkangs, half for ebelione, half to stuff all the money - easy to lun to Australia, America or Europe this time.

    Luns in blood lor, where got stay and fight wan, must lun like gelenpader last time do to China rebolusion wan..

    Lun lun ebeliwear, now use 2nd hand submarine better lor,


  80. Skilgannon10663:27 pm

    Note how Perwira ducks the hard questions and resorts to puerile humour to mask his inadequacies and incomprehension?

    Come to think of it, sounds much like the idiots at Perkasa!

  81. Skilgannon10664:23 pm

    According to SIPRI (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute):

    - there is no Singapore-based company amongst the top 30 arms-producing companies in 2009

    - Singapore is not amongst the top 30 largest arms exporters, 2000-2010

    - Singapore is ranked 11th amongst the top 30 arms importers, 2000-2010

    (above from SIPRI Arms Transfer Database)

  82. Anonymous6:59 pm



    People are all interested in this lor..
    The place your gelenpader abandoned. Noone interested in Singapore wan..




  83. Skilgannon106611:52 am


    Tell that to Google which has put it's S-E Asian HQ in Singapore.

    Or to Stanchart Bank which has it's regional HQ in Singapore and whose CEO styles himself as "CEO, Singapore and South-east Asia".

    Nope, they are not moved by infantile videos or by postings on something called Temasek Review!

    Which, no doubt, you find extremely galling. Like Dr M does, apparently.


  84. Anonymous1:00 am

    I am a Singaporean. The issue as stated by one person is the per unit cost and its specifications.

    Yet this is part of the story, how does it integrate into the army?