We are free to do what we are told to do, what to eat, what to think, what to say, how to dress, how to behave etc etc.
In short, we are free only within the parameters set by the almighty gomen who has your interest at heart. They know what is good for you. They are always right.
Don't question them. Its paradise and Utopia here.
To allow Malaysian to read the banned books is to allow them to finally understand Wahhabism and then most definitely they will hate and not support the Sauidi regime. Saudi regime is all about controlled, greed and garnering international Islamic support on the ruling family.
This is what I also picked. The 9/11 hijackers wpo rammed the planes into the World Trade Centre were Wahhabis
The Key to understanding the attacks on the U.S. and why our government is banning all of the books mentioned is to understand "Wahhabism."
Most Americans continue to be puzzled by the Saudis. 15 or the 19 hijackers on Sept 11th were Saudia Arabian. Not Taliban. Not Libyan. Not Palestinian. Why? They don't like our military presence in the country, our culture, our policies, in general they just don't like us and want us dead. What's more they're increasingly unhappy witht he ruling Al Saud Family, who a decade ago cut a deal with us for military protection. The Key to understanding the vicious attack on America is in understanding "Wahhabism."
Most Americans continue to be puzzled by the Saudis. 15 or the 19 hijackers on Sept 11th were Saudia Arabian. Not Taliban. Not Libyan. Not Palestinian. Why? They don't like US military presence in the country, US culture, US policies, in general they just don't like Americans and they the US dead. What's more they're increasingly unhappy witht the ruling Al Saud Family, who a decade ago cut a deal with us for military protection. The Key to understanding the vicious attack on America is in understanding "Wahhabism." The key in understanding why Malayusian government is banning all of these books is because they are all critical of the Saudi regime. Yes our government needs the Saudi for moral and religious supports.
my generation was lucky. We were free to read what we wanted, except the communist literature. Even so I managed to read about Ernesto "Che" Guevara. As a schoolboy I was inspired by his idealism.
We freely read our Christian friends' Bible and other Christian scriptures. I have to confess that I read the Book of Genesis before I understood the Quran by reading Its English and later Indonesian translations.
On hot days were sought shelter at the St Michael's Roman Catholic Church. It was cool and shady. The Church was part of our Mission school.
We went to movies about Jesus, Moses and other Prophets. The was a Cross above the blackboard in every room. Our Christian classmates said their prayers each morning.
There were Malays boys who took scripture for the Overseas School Certificate and Malaysian School Certificate examinations. None became Christians. Many turned out to be very good Muslims.
Today, Malaysian Muslims are so protected that I often wonder if they can withstand "ujian". Certainly a lot of Malaysian Muslims are shallow in their knowledge of Islam other than, maybe, the basic tenets -- the fardhu ain. Itu pun dicurigai.
I am worried so much by this holier than thou attitude of these so-called protectors of the faith. I don't think they read a lot either and certainly not in languages other than Malay.
They can ban or even burn the books, but these days you can read on line.
It seems that after offending the Hindus and banning the Christian books the "Islam Hadhari" regime has to be seen to be fair by banning books on Islam as well. I wonder how many people read these books. But the regime has to make a show out of it.
No need to take to the street to protest. Heed the PM's call -- protest at the ballot.
The Palestinians are paying for what the Nazis and Europeans did to the Jews.
The Iraqis and Afghans, millions of them, men, women, and especially children, are paying for what the wahabbis did to the American towers and that five-sided building.
Now the Iranians may have to pay for a lame-duck dud out to prove his pro-jewish credentials and perhaps wahabbi fear of resurgent shiites across the Persian Gulf.
So, by banning those books the putridjaya regime in its boundless wisdom, may have discovered the mysterious nostrum to hopefully stave off any wahabbi ire and keep Malaysia safe.
So, cheer up. The jamnapari goatherd is not so clueless after all.
religions of the world are different ways to pray to god. in the end, if god does exist, he will listen to everyone....after all, we are his creation.
To put into perspective, assume you have 10 children. out of the 10children, no one is going to be identical. They are all going to show love in different ways to their parents. Even if one is disrespectful to their parent, a parent would not wish for that child to burn in hell, no matter how disrespectful they have been.
Why do we expect God, who is greater than all of us to punish the people who dont follow his teachings?
And, if we really had brains, we would expect more from God today. It's time for God to step up and show the world some peace. Too many fightings and wars are in the name of god.
The spread of religion worldwide has always been by force and by the sword.
There is a beautiful African saying that goes something like this....
"When they came, we had the land and they had the bible, but when they left, we had the bible and they had the land"
Religion and the concept of god is quite unattractive to me.
Rocky, not sure what the problem is here but I remember when Tun Mahathir's "Malay Dilemma" was a banned book in Malaysia I borrowed it from my university library in the United States. Did it mean I embraced his preaching? Doesn't matter really. We have our own minds, use it! Now that book is no longer a "banned book".
As for religion, if you don't want to believe in something, you never will. Faith is entirely individual. If you have it, no amount of reading of banned books will shake it. If you don't? Well, that's up to you to decide. As for Hadharians, what the hell is that? What I am curious to know is why the sudden interest?
Did you know that Christian activists have banned Harry Potter books from many school reading lists around the world? The books have even been destroyed in burning protests. Read about it here: http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2008/01/11/impressionable-parents-pastors-worry-film-inapprop/
Read an interesting comment on the "Fear of Holy Books" by Farish M Noor published in The Daily Times. http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C02%5C08%5Cstory_8-2-2008_pg3_3
I was at the Perkampungan Hadhari at Pulau Wan Man in Kuala Terengganu this morning. There were many visitors heading there. What worrys me is that the free boat service to the island did not consider the safety of the passengers. The boats were packed with visitors including small kids but none of them wear any safety jackets. I cannot imagine the disaster if tragedy strike. I hope this will alert the authority there.
Banned books On Islam; fear minds get polluted When there is different approach
Religion is either you follow or you don’t Believe in it or forget all about its saying Dream on it like a hardcore story Telling you the grandeur and paradise When you walk the ground
Banned books People will get to read On line and in libraries The government can’t ban the minds It is where the government would fail
We aren’t children Telling us our wages of sin If the minds roam freely We already sin say what you want
It is God’s gift He wants His children to explore Knowing the good and the bad Then make the choice…..
The government leaders think they act in good faith They are selfish and fear of their own shadows They know what they have done They dare not turn the pages The alternative view too much to handle
So the government bans the books Looking good saintly approach But the government forgets This is not a frog living under a coconut shell
Musa Hitam ... what do you aspect from a racoon or musang?
This is outdated lah. I thought to build human resource is to let them get exposure and develop an independent and critical mind.
I do not buy into all these strange islamic view - plural islam, liberal islam, moderate islam, "fundamentalist" - but one and only only islam. That from the Quran, and Hadith and Ulamak views not in contradiction with the Quran. Differences in view does not mean different type of Islam. Tauhid remains the same.
Let the book in for people to read it. It will actual help Muslims to see how dangerous these strange ideas are and help build arguments agst it. Insulating by banning books will only weaken Muslims intellectual depth and add to the curiosity, probably attraction to the idea.
Heck .. go to Singapore and smuggle it in. The customs are too stupid to know of these books. For safe measure, cover the book with something when bringin it in thru the border. My trick of getting banned books are to order through pilots ... hehehe... Immigration don't bother. There is another trick ... hehehe ... I am not telling.
In the first place, the ideas in those books are widely available on the Internet ...
God forbidden I hope our future Malaysians don't have to pay for our present leaders blunders. It used to be fun to have festivals/ celebrations. All the office mates come and have meals in one anothers house. It was so 'meriah'. It rarely happenes these day. At the most one mss so called 'jamuan' at the office. Then we had 'Kongsi raya'. Tat also became contraversial.The mind is so controlled thee days.Even wishing another Merry christmas or Happy Deepavali is said to be un Islamic.Where is the Malaysia going to with attitutes from so called 'scholars' and leaders? I use to sit is Agama clases although I was no a Muslim. I was also exposed to a lot of christian materials.So what if there is across i a missionary school. I chose to go there coz in my opinion they provided better quality education. I ever converted to another faith.infact I have more faith in my religion and I learn to understand the muslims and others better. The extreme control of what to read and not by our government is not helping to build a better informed and intelligent Malaysian race. Are we not under estimate the mind and intelligents of present day youth? Conversion issues also should be handled in more transparent and fair manner for one to respect the other. Why all the hush hush rush i resolving leadin to perceived injustice done. After all religion is personal - between you and God. God safe Malaysia .Thats all I can say.
You ran a newspaper and I am surprised you don't know why there is so much being said or spoken to basically cover up or shut off any exposure to anything christian.
You had these anti "things" and "words" published in the papers you controlled and yet you feign ignorance about all that happens today.
There was demonising and there were many things done in the eighties especially and you either said nothing about it or you carried the voice of those anti guys.
But the question that begs asking is really who these so called loud mouthed anti guys were?
In my estimation most were UMNO wannabes who wanted to be heard and recognised within their communities. They wanted to be the local jaguh kampongs and what other safer way than to demonise an "enslaved enemy".
Anwar Ibrahim got to be very popular. Of course very little might be directly ascribed to him. But the liberties taken by many school heads to remove crosses, to stop Chapel sevices in schools and would you believe this, to even in a way, reduce the esteem of christmas by changing the end of year school holidays so that the new term started just before christmas. (Before you begin to deny it, even though it was not necessary, Anwar even mentioned something about this change not relating to Christmas, but had something to do with the floods or what ever.)
But you see what ever it is, a lot of what ever was said was said, not so much to protect the Malay Muslims, but more to get themselves aired or quoted in the next days papers. (I have always said that UMNO "leaders" when they say anything stupid and that gets published, bearing in mind that they are basically not idiots, may have said whatever just so they get quoted in the papers the next day. Their picture appears and their names are printed. That makes mama happy and whoever they are now trying to woo gets impressed!)
For as long as the Mission schools have been around there rarely has been any claim nor accusation of Muslims being influenced to convert. In my school Bibles were even given free to all students. Some Muslim students could have also taken them. But I cannot remember anyone converting.
If there has been so much fear generated over the past few years of Mission schools and their efforts, it is not because any Muslim has been influenced in anyway. It has more to do with politicians and some low down ulamaks wanting to be seen to be champions in the eyes of their constituents or congregation and of course they want to see their names in print and their pictures in the papers.
And Mr Jasin, it was people like yourself and your successors who have given space for these low down fools to ventilate their lies and filth in the public space. And now that this fear exists, it is this fear that dictates what can and what cannot be accessed by the Malay Muslim in this country. So please, save us your reminiscing of your good times!
I'd like to read these books and glean some kinda understanding of Islam by myself.
The thing is, it is healthy for the intellect of the masses to read all kinds of things because it will then prompt them to question previously held wisdom or perhaps add to it.
But of course it is unhealthy for any government in power to have a questioning rakyat. Especially if the government is more interested in the power than the governance.
Malaysia is no exception, is it?
By the way, I read the Malay Dilemma as a young teen and the Satanic Verses in 1992. Both were banned books at one time (the Rushdie book still is). I read them in Malaysia.
So u see, just because things are banned doesn't mean you can find it in Malaysia.
Case in point, firearms that see action in many of the robberies we see in the media and of course porn.
This film hits me.I read and saw the film a while back. Its based on stories of the POW camp during the Japanese occupation. Some good story base line message. The title itself represent the message.Among alliance, there would be treachery and arm twisting deal too.
The word 'rat'itself has diffrent meaning and various interpretation. If someone be called 'a rat' in underground lingo all it means never trust a person. A manipulative and cunning person for betraying a friendship bondage built. It happends particularly to a person face with serious allegation in trying to escape any charges brought againts him by turning informer. Thats how cheap a person can be.
Rats a dangerous species.It represents dirt and a pest to householder. It is a unhealty creature. You would find plenty cripping on the street where major food joints and many of them in colony around.
Some how, we also have 'living rat'. In office politics its normal to find rats among us. In real politics it normal especially now during these pre election fever. I smell rat this time of the year and a heavy over weight one too.
Some are not rats but mice or hampster which is harmless and are home pet and healty to keep in the house. As George Owen 'Animal Farm' line.....all animals unite!! Its time to work.......
All I can say 'until the Falcon meets the Falconeers' no one could be trusted while the election fever is on.
What ever it is, To 'Would be or Wanna be King Rats, my humble request 'Don't be a rat' and 'Get ready to be experimented in the Science Lab and Beware the rat trap!
There would be question like, where did you get the Dirty Food!! From the people?
Only fools knows the value of a lame horse!!!!
George Segal plays Corporal King, an American soldier in a Japanese prison camp who manages all the black market operations amongst the enforced holding of a group of English and Americans. His demeanor and bearing stand out in contrast to the rag tag prisoners he shares the camp with in part because of his willingness to ostensibly advance on the needs of others. He is constantly scrutinized by Lieutenant Grey (Tom Courtenay), the camp police chief as he has gotten reports that King has robbed fellow prisoners in a poker game. It is clear that King takes pleasure in living on what would be considered a clear example of the American Capitalist version of supply and demand, and seeks ways to increase his organization by recruiting talented men like Peter Marlowe (James Fox), an English soldier who speaks fluent Japanese, but refuses Kings offering of money for his services. Marlowe attempts to live by a code that bonds men in way that transcends any financial gain, and in fact considers King an actual friend because he and the American are interred together under Japanese rule. King extends his operation to include trading valuables to the Japanese and breeding rats to sell as food to the officers as a delicacy, activities that Marlowe is happy to aid in because of the smart commercial way that the schemes are launched. The ability to gain valuable items including medical supplies becomes important when Fox injures himself and faces serious physical danger. As Lieutenant Grey closes in to mete out the camp law enforcement his code of conduct conflicts with Marlowe, his cabin mate. Theirs is a philosophy differing slightly and both based on survival with the most reaffirming respect for fellow man they can develop under these war conditioners. As Grey attempts to arrest King and Marlowe for their criminal activity it becomes clear that the commanding officers live by a fractured value system.
The BN govt ala UMNO thinks the people are so weak in faith...see a cross, read a bible in Malay language and they will run to convert.
Much ado over nothing. Me thinks the authorities must say something or do something ( even though sounding stupid) to look and feel important and relevant.
Shar101, so how do you recognise these Hadharians? They carry guns? Oh I see, in my ignorance I did not realise this is a political discussion and has got nothing to do about religion, does it? As I am allergic to politics, I shall leave you with this catchy Christian Hymn that I used to sing during assembly at my alma mater BBGS. This was before the school complied with the ruling to separate the few Malay girls in the entire school into a classroom for free period as there was not even an Ustazah to teach us Ugama until much later.
But what I appreciated most about my headmistress was that she never forced us to sing the hymns. We just sang along because it was great fun and had a good message. We just kept silent at the last two verses and hummed merrily along. We were none the worse for it and I will always remember to build you house upon a rock.
Cheers!
The Wise Man built His House Upon The Rock
The wise man built his house upon the rock (repeat 3x) And the rains came tumbling down!
The rains came down and the floods came up (repeat 3x), And the house on the rock stood firm.
The foolish man built his house upon the sand (repeat 3x) And the rains came tumbling down!
The rains came down and the floods came up (repeat 3x) And the house on the sand went SPLAT!
So build your life on the Lord Jesus Christ (repeat 3x) And the blessings will come tumbling down.
The blessings will come down as the prayers go up (repeate 3x) So build your life on the Lord!
the mentality behind the banning of books is the same as that of the guy who wrote, "Today, Malaysian Muslims are so protected that I often wonder if they can withstand "ujian". Certainly a lot of Malaysian Muslims are shallow in their knowledge of Islam other than, maybe, the basic tenets -- the fardhu ain. Itu pun dicurigai."
and, as if to prove his own ignorance, he went on to add "I am worried so much by this holier than thou attitude of these so-called protectors of the faith. I don't think they read a lot either and certainly not in languages other than Malay."
ah, yes... he's trying to convey the message that he speaks lotsa language.
that's good... that's encouraged in Islam.
in the movie, "The name of the Rose," there's a character named Salvatore and he can speak 4 different languages: English, German, French and Italian.
so far so good... but, for one small problem...
Salvatore has this nasty habit of using all 4 languages in one sentence!
people like Kadir should watch this movie, starring Sean Connery and Christian Slater, and see how ridiculous they reallly sound.
moral of this story is, either you speak in one language or you don't... but never neither nor!"
now, something to soothe Kadir's anxiety when he wrote that Malaysian Muslims are so protected that he often wondered if they can withstand "ujian."
maybe he hasn't been reading the Holy Book lately, because, if he did, then he would surely know that the question does not arise because, "For Allah guides Whom He will To a path That is straight." (2:213)
furthermore, "... Every soul draws the meed of it's acts on none but itself: no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another... " (6:164)
so, Kadir... stop thinking like a Demi-God and save your worries for yourself because, verily, we are all judged by our own actions... have you ever withheld the truth from being printed in the newspaper that you used to run?
or, conversely, did you ever allow untruths to be printed?
justify it or spin it whichever way you see fit... but at the end of the day, the truth will out!
I'm torn over whether or not Robert Spencer's book should be banned, as he's an asotundingly ignorant hate-monger. But I suppose it would be okay if it were available here, then people could read it (those tricked into buying it, anyway) and realise just what a vile person he really is.
I'm a tue bibliophile, having in my collection "Nine Parts of Desire" by Geraldine Brooks, and karen Armstrong's "A History of God"...they were banned years after enough people (including me) purchase them in bookshops around the city (snigger!). I also have gibran's "The Prophet", which i heard is banned as well. A BAN WONT STOP me from getting copies. thanks for the info, rocky.
Lets not brood over this !! Instead try reading whats available even if its different. Now that we know what a BAN brings about we should appreciate whats available and then grow from there. Wisemann.
It is strange that some of us think that the banning of books (islamic ones) is the result of the hadari thing. [why must some people politicise everything?]
Books about and relating/associated with islam have always been banned even before the regime of AAB.
On another point, some generalised that every one who reads these books are wise and intelligent enough to know the real truth and know facts about islam and is able to diferentiate. In that every readers (everywhere in the world), moslems and non-moslems alike - hey, the books are not meant for moslems only, has the same capability and capacity! OMG, what gross injustice!
Book ban: the two faces of Islam Hadhari Ismail Che Yahaya (Malaysiakini.com, Feb 11, 2008)
On Jan 29, the Malaysian government banned 11 books, one of them The Two Faces of Islam: Saudi Fundamentalism and Its Role in Terrorism authored by Stephen Schwartz, a Muslim convert.
Schwartz suggested that ‘Saudi-Wahhabi agents’ in Malaysia had become alarmed by the publication of the book in Bahasa Indonesia, Dua Wajah Islam.
In a protest statement against the Malaysian ban, Schwartz commented: ‘It’s contemptible and, frankly, reveals the backward-looking attitudes of authorities in Malaysia, a country which prides itself on its alleged modernisation as an economic tiger.
‘In reality, books cannot be banned today. They are smuggled, pirated – especially in Southeast Asia – downloaded, and, in the case of my book, can easily be imported from Indonesia and read by Malaysians who do not know English’.
Regardless of Schwartz’s wild guess, book banning in Malaysia of late has gone beyond ‘Saudi- Wahhabi agents’.
Before The Two Faces of Islam, the Internal Security Ministry banned four titles on religious fundamentalism over two years. They are: Islamic Fundamentalism since 1945 (banned on 7 June 2007), Feminism and Islamic Fundamentalism: The Limits of Postmodern Analysis (26 April 2007), The Battle for God: Fundamentalism in Judaism, Christianity and Islam (8 June 2006) and, A Fundamental Fear: Eurocentrism and The Emergence of Islamism (8 June 2006).
See the ministry's full list of banned books here.
Islamic fundamentalism is a broad phenomenon, not solely engineered or funded by the Saudi regime. In fact, fundamentalism is no longer a Christian or Muslim political landscape. It has gained currency and inflicted other religions too.
Karen Armstrong, in her banned book, describes religious fundamentalism of the 20th century as a response to modern, liberal, materialist globalised civilization. She writes: ‘The West has developed an entirely unprecedented and wholly different type of civilisation, so the religious response to it has been unique’.
Religious fundamentalists, she elaborates, ‘have absorbed the pragmatic rationalism of modernity, and, under the guidance of their charismatic leaders, they refine these ‘fundamentals’ so as to create an ideology that provides the faithful with a plan of action’.
Therefore, it is of no surprise that even Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism and Confucianism have developed fundamentalist factions.
That is why I find the banning is so overwhelming in that it shows the ‘two faces’ of Islam Hadhari as formulated by our present prime minister. On one hand, he tries to promote more tolerant, progressive and moderate Islam but on the other hand, his government has time and again banned such scholarly books on fundamentalism.
Does it mean our government is protecting and nurturing a fundamentalist mindset among Muslims? Has his Islam Hadhari project been infiltrated by fundamentalist elements in his bureaucracy?
Yes!!! We ARE free!!!
ReplyDeleteWe are free to do what we are told to do, what to eat, what to think, what to say, how to dress, how to behave etc etc.
In short, we are free only within the parameters set by the almighty gomen who has your interest at heart. They know what is good for you. They are always right.
Don't question them. Its paradise and Utopia here.
To allow Malaysian to read the banned books is to allow them to finally understand Wahhabism and then most definitely they will hate and not support the Sauidi regime. Saudi regime is all about controlled, greed and garnering international Islamic support on the ruling family.
ReplyDeleteThis is what I also picked.
The 9/11 hijackers wpo rammed the planes into the World Trade Centre were Wahhabis
The Key to understanding the attacks on the U.S. and why our government is banning all of the books mentioned is to understand "Wahhabism."
Most Americans continue to be puzzled by the Saudis. 15 or the 19 hijackers on Sept 11th were Saudia Arabian. Not Taliban. Not Libyan. Not Palestinian. Why? They don't like our military presence in the country, our culture, our policies, in general they just don't like us and want us dead. What's more they're increasingly unhappy witht he ruling Al Saud Family, who a decade ago cut a deal with us for military protection. The Key to understanding the vicious attack on America is in understanding "Wahhabism."
Most Americans continue to be puzzled by the Saudis. 15 or the 19 hijackers on Sept 11th were Saudia Arabian. Not Taliban. Not Libyan. Not Palestinian. Why? They don't like US military presence in the country, US culture, US policies, in general they just don't like Americans and they the US dead. What's more they're increasingly unhappy witht the ruling Al Saud Family, who a decade ago cut a deal with us for military protection. The Key to understanding the vicious attack on America is in understanding "Wahhabism."
The key in understanding why Malayusian government is banning all of these books is because they are all critical of the Saudi regime. Yes our government needs the Saudi for moral and religious supports.
Sdr Rocky's Bru,
ReplyDeletemy generation was lucky. We were free to read what we wanted, except the communist literature. Even so I managed to read about Ernesto "Che" Guevara. As a schoolboy I was inspired by his idealism.
We freely read our Christian friends' Bible and other Christian scriptures. I have to confess that I read the Book of Genesis before I understood the Quran by reading Its English and later Indonesian translations.
On hot days were sought shelter at the St Michael's Roman Catholic Church. It was cool and shady. The Church was part of our Mission school.
We went to movies about Jesus, Moses and other Prophets. The was a Cross above the blackboard in every room. Our Christian classmates said their prayers each morning.
There were Malays boys who took scripture for the Overseas School Certificate and Malaysian School Certificate examinations. None became Christians. Many turned out to be very good Muslims.
Today, Malaysian Muslims are so protected that I often wonder if they can withstand "ujian". Certainly a lot of Malaysian Muslims are shallow in their knowledge of Islam other than, maybe, the basic tenets -- the fardhu ain. Itu pun dicurigai.
I am worried so much by this holier than thou attitude of these so-called protectors of the faith. I don't think they read a lot either and certainly not in languages other than Malay.
They can ban or even burn the books, but these days you can read on line.
It seems that after offending the Hindus and banning the Christian books the "Islam Hadhari" regime has to be seen to be fair by banning books on Islam as well. I wonder how many people read these books. But the regime has to make a show out of it.
No need to take to the street to protest. Heed the PM's call -- protest at the ballot.
Thank you.
What a sad world we live in.
ReplyDeleteThe Palestinians are paying for what the Nazis and Europeans did to the Jews.
The Iraqis and Afghans, millions of them, men, women, and especially children, are paying for what the wahabbis did to the American towers and that five-sided building.
Now the Iranians may have to pay for a lame-duck dud out to prove his pro-jewish credentials and perhaps wahabbi fear of resurgent shiites across the Persian Gulf.
So, by banning those books the putridjaya regime in its boundless wisdom, may have discovered the mysterious nostrum to hopefully stave off any wahabbi ire and keep Malaysia safe.
So, cheer up. The jamnapari goatherd is not so clueless after all.
religions of the world are different ways to pray to god. in the end, if god does exist, he will listen to everyone....after all, we are his creation.
ReplyDeleteTo put into perspective, assume you have 10 children. out of the 10children, no one is going to be identical. They are all going to show love in different ways to their parents. Even if one is disrespectful to their parent, a parent would not wish for that child to burn in hell, no matter how disrespectful they have been.
Why do we expect God, who is greater than all of us to punish the people who dont follow his teachings?
And, if we really had brains, we would expect more from God today. It's time for God to step up and show the world some peace. Too many fightings and wars are in the name of god.
The spread of religion worldwide has always been by force and by the sword.
There is a beautiful African saying that goes something like this....
"When they came, we had the land and they had the bible, but when they left, we had the bible and they had the land"
Religion and the concept of god is quite unattractive to me.
thanks, bro
ReplyDeletewill definitely look for the books.
and Hadhari?
Baah!
Don't mock us, Abdullah Badawi.
Rocky, not sure what the problem is here but I remember when Tun Mahathir's "Malay Dilemma" was a banned book in Malaysia I borrowed it from my university library in the United States. Did it mean I embraced his preaching? Doesn't matter really. We have our own minds, use it! Now that book is no longer a "banned book".
ReplyDeleteAs for religion, if you don't want to believe in something, you never will. Faith is entirely individual. If you have it, no amount of reading of banned books will shake it. If you don't? Well, that's up to you to decide. As for Hadharians, what the hell is that? What I am curious to know is why the sudden interest?
Did you know that Christian activists have banned Harry Potter books from many school reading lists around the world? The books have even been destroyed in burning protests. Read about it here: http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2008/01/11/impressionable-parents-pastors-worry-film-inapprop/
Read an interesting comment on the "Fear of Holy Books" by Farish M Noor published in The Daily Times.
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2008%5C02%5C08%5Cstory_8-2-2008_pg3_3
Bro Rocky,
ReplyDeleteI was at the Perkampungan Hadhari at Pulau Wan Man in Kuala Terengganu this morning. There were many visitors heading there. What worrys me is that the free boat service to the island did not consider the safety of the passengers. The boats were packed with visitors including small kids but none of them wear any safety jackets. I cannot imagine the disaster if tragedy strike.
I hope this will alert the authority there.
YgArif.
Banned books
ReplyDeleteOn Islam; fear minds get polluted
When there is different approach
Religion is either you follow or you don’t
Believe in it or forget all about its saying
Dream on it like a hardcore story
Telling you the grandeur and paradise
When you walk the ground
Banned books
People will get to read
On line and in libraries
The government can’t ban the minds
It is where the government would fail
We aren’t children
Telling us our wages of sin
If the minds roam freely
We already sin say what you want
It is God’s gift
He wants His children to explore
Knowing the good and the bad
Then make the choice…..
The government leaders think they act in good faith
They are selfish and fear of their own shadows
They know what they have done
They dare not turn the pages
The alternative view too much to handle
So the government bans the books
Looking good saintly approach
But the government forgets
This is not a frog living under a coconut shell
Musa Hitam ... what do you aspect from a racoon or musang?
ReplyDeleteThis is outdated lah. I thought to build human resource is to let them get exposure and develop an independent and critical mind.
I do not buy into all these strange islamic view - plural islam, liberal islam, moderate islam, "fundamentalist" - but one and only only islam. That from the Quran, and Hadith and Ulamak views not in contradiction with the Quran. Differences in view does not mean different type of Islam. Tauhid remains the same.
Let the book in for people to read it. It will actual help Muslims to see how dangerous these strange ideas are and help build arguments agst it. Insulating by banning books will only weaken Muslims intellectual depth and add to the curiosity, probably attraction to the idea.
Heck .. go to Singapore and smuggle it in. The customs are too stupid to know of these books. For safe measure, cover the book with something when bringin it in thru the border. My trick of getting banned books are to order through pilots ... hehehe... Immigration don't bother. There is another trick ... hehehe ... I am not telling.
In the first place, the ideas in those books are widely available on the Internet ...
God forbidden I hope our future Malaysians don't have to pay for our present leaders blunders.
ReplyDeleteIt used to be fun to have festivals/ celebrations. All the office mates come and have meals in one anothers house. It was so 'meriah'. It rarely happenes these day. At the most one mss so called 'jamuan' at the office. Then we had 'Kongsi raya'. Tat also became contraversial.The mind is so controlled thee days.Even wishing another Merry christmas or Happy Deepavali is said to be un Islamic.Where is the Malaysia going to with attitutes from so called 'scholars' and leaders? I use to sit is Agama clases although I was no a Muslim. I was also exposed to a lot of christian materials.So what if there is across i a missionary school. I chose to go there coz in my opinion they provided better quality education. I ever converted to another faith.infact I have more faith in my religion and I learn to understand the muslims and others better.
The extreme control of what to read and not by our government is not helping to build a better informed and intelligent Malaysian race. Are we not under estimate the mind and intelligents of present day youth?
Conversion issues also should be handled in more transparent and fair manner for one to respect the other. Why all the hush hush rush i resolving leadin to perceived injustice done. After all religion is personal - between you and God.
God safe Malaysia .Thats all I can say.
All well and good. But how about reading a good translation of the Quran for a change eh?
ReplyDeleteMr Kadir Jasin
ReplyDeleteYou ran a newspaper and I am surprised you don't know why there is so much being said or spoken to basically cover up or shut off any exposure to anything christian.
You had these anti "things" and "words" published in the papers you controlled and yet you feign ignorance about all that happens today.
There was demonising and there were many things done in the eighties especially and you either said nothing about it or you carried the voice of those anti guys.
But the question that begs asking is really who these so called loud mouthed anti guys were?
In my estimation most were UMNO wannabes who wanted to be heard and recognised within their communities. They wanted to be the local jaguh kampongs and what other safer way than to demonise an "enslaved enemy".
Anwar Ibrahim got to be very popular. Of course very little might be directly ascribed to him. But the liberties taken by many school heads to remove crosses, to stop Chapel sevices in schools and would you believe this, to even in a way, reduce the esteem of christmas by changing the end of year school holidays so that the new term started just before christmas. (Before you begin to deny it, even though it was not necessary, Anwar even mentioned something about this change not relating to Christmas, but had something to do with the floods or what ever.)
But you see what ever it is, a lot of what ever was said was said, not so much to protect the Malay Muslims, but more to get themselves aired or quoted in the next days papers. (I have always said that UMNO "leaders" when they say anything stupid and that gets published, bearing in mind that they are basically not idiots, may have said whatever just so they get quoted in the papers the next day. Their picture appears and their names are printed. That makes mama happy and whoever they are now trying to woo gets impressed!)
For as long as the Mission schools have been around there rarely has been any claim nor accusation of Muslims being influenced to convert. In my school Bibles were even given free to all students. Some Muslim students could have also taken them. But I cannot remember anyone converting.
If there has been so much fear generated over the past few years of Mission schools and their efforts, it is not because any Muslim has been influenced in anyway. It has more to do with politicians and some low down ulamaks wanting to be seen to be champions in the eyes of their constituents or congregation and of course they want to see their names in print and their pictures in the papers.
And Mr Jasin, it was people like yourself and your successors who have given space for these low down fools to ventilate their lies and filth in the public space. And now that this fear exists, it is this fear that dictates what can and what cannot be accessed by the Malay Muslim in this country. So please, save us your reminiscing of your good times!
I'd like to read these books and glean some kinda understanding of Islam by myself.
ReplyDeleteThe thing is, it is healthy for the intellect of the masses to read all kinds of things because it will then prompt them to question previously held wisdom or perhaps add to it.
But of course it is unhealthy for any government in power to have a questioning rakyat. Especially if the government is more interested in the power than the governance.
Malaysia is no exception, is it?
By the way, I read the Malay Dilemma as a young teen and the Satanic Verses in 1992. Both were banned books at one time (the Rushdie book still is). I read them in Malaysia.
So u see, just because things are banned doesn't mean you can find it in Malaysia.
Case in point, firearms that see action in many of the robberies we see in the media and of course porn.
Oooo... Hadharians.
ReplyDeleteAren't they the new militants?
Nuff said, I think.
This film hits me.I read and saw the film a while back.
ReplyDeleteIts based on stories of the POW camp during the Japanese occupation.
Some good story base line message.
The title itself represent the message.Among alliance, there would be treachery and arm twisting deal too.
The word 'rat'itself has diffrent meaning and various interpretation.
If someone be called 'a rat' in underground lingo all it means never trust a person.
A manipulative and cunning person for betraying a friendship bondage built.
It happends particularly to a person face with serious allegation in trying to escape any charges brought againts him by turning informer.
Thats how cheap a person can be.
Rats a dangerous species.It represents dirt and a pest to householder.
It is a unhealty creature.
You would find plenty cripping on the street where major food joints and many of them in colony around.
Some how, we also have 'living rat'.
In office politics its normal to find rats among us.
In real politics it normal especially now during these pre election fever.
I smell rat this time of the year and a heavy over weight one too.
Some are not rats but mice or hampster which is harmless and are home pet and healty to keep in the house.
As George Owen 'Animal Farm' line.....all animals unite!!
Its time to work.......
All I can say 'until the Falcon meets the Falconeers' no one could be trusted while the election fever is on.
What ever it is, To 'Would be or Wanna be King Rats,
my humble request
'Don't be a rat' and 'Get ready to be experimented in the Science Lab and Beware the rat trap!
There would be question like,
where did you get the Dirty Food!!
From the people?
Only fools knows the value of a lame horse!!!!
George Segal plays Corporal King, an American soldier in a Japanese prison camp who manages all the black market operations amongst the enforced holding of a group of English and Americans. His demeanor and bearing stand out in contrast to the rag tag prisoners he shares the camp with in part because of his willingness to ostensibly advance on the needs of others. He is constantly scrutinized by Lieutenant Grey (Tom Courtenay), the camp police chief as he has gotten reports that King has robbed fellow prisoners in a poker game. It is clear that King takes pleasure in living on what would be considered a clear example of the American Capitalist version of supply and demand, and seeks ways to increase his organization by recruiting talented men like Peter Marlowe (James Fox), an English soldier who speaks fluent Japanese, but refuses Kings offering of money for his services. Marlowe attempts to live by a code that bonds men in way that transcends any financial gain, and in fact considers King an actual friend because he and the American are interred together under Japanese rule. King extends his operation to include trading valuables to the Japanese and breeding rats to sell as food to the officers as a delicacy, activities that Marlowe is happy to aid in because of the smart commercial way that the schemes are launched. The ability to gain valuable items including medical supplies becomes important when Fox injures himself and faces serious physical danger. As Lieutenant Grey closes in to mete out the camp law enforcement his code of conduct conflicts with Marlowe, his cabin mate. Theirs is a philosophy differing slightly and both based on survival with the most reaffirming respect for fellow man they can develop under these war conditioners. As Grey attempts to arrest King and Marlowe for their criminal activity it becomes clear that the commanding officers live by a fractured value system.
Long Live The Truth Ya Haq.
Another website that reveals the true face of Islam is :Islam Watch.com."
ReplyDeleteThe BN govt ala UMNO thinks the people are so weak in faith...see a cross, read a bible in Malay language and they will run to convert.
ReplyDeleteMuch ado over nothing. Me thinks the authorities must say something or do something ( even though sounding stupid) to look and feel important and relevant.
Good idea Miryan. May I suggest a reading of an excellent English translation of the Holy Koran with commentary by A. Yusuf Ali.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.harunyahya.com/Quran_translation/Quran_translation_index.php
Shar101, so how do you recognise these Hadharians? They carry guns? Oh I see, in my ignorance I did not realise this is a political discussion and has got nothing to do about religion, does it? As I am allergic to politics, I shall leave you with this catchy Christian Hymn that I used to sing during assembly at my alma mater BBGS. This was before the school complied with the ruling to separate the few Malay girls in the entire school into a classroom for free period as there was not even an Ustazah to teach us Ugama until much later.
But what I appreciated most about my headmistress was that she never forced us to sing the hymns. We just sang along because it was great fun and had a good message. We just kept silent at the last two verses and hummed merrily along. We were none the worse for it and I will always remember to build you house upon a rock.
Cheers!
The Wise Man built His House Upon The Rock
The wise man built his house upon the rock (repeat 3x)
And the rains came tumbling down!
The rains came down and the floods came up (repeat 3x),
And the house on the rock stood firm.
The foolish man built his house upon the sand (repeat 3x)
And the rains came tumbling down!
The rains came down and the floods came up (repeat 3x)
And the house on the sand went SPLAT!
So build your life on the Lord Jesus Christ (repeat 3x)
And the blessings will come tumbling down.
The blessings will come down as the prayers go up (repeate 3x)
So build your life on the Lord!
the mentality behind the banning of books is the same as that of the guy who wrote, "Today, Malaysian Muslims are so protected that I often wonder if they can withstand "ujian". Certainly a lot of Malaysian Muslims are shallow in their knowledge of Islam other than, maybe, the basic tenets -- the fardhu ain. Itu pun dicurigai."
ReplyDeleteand, as if to prove his own ignorance, he went on to add "I am worried so much by this holier than thou attitude of these so-called protectors of the faith. I don't think they read a lot either and certainly not in languages other than Malay."
ah, yes... he's trying to convey the message that he speaks lotsa language.
that's good... that's encouraged in Islam.
in the movie, "The name of the Rose," there's a character named Salvatore and he can speak 4 different languages: English, German, French and Italian.
so far so good... but, for one small problem...
Salvatore has this nasty habit of using all 4 languages in one sentence!
people like Kadir should watch this movie, starring Sean Connery and Christian Slater, and see how ridiculous they reallly sound.
moral of this story is, either you speak in one language or you don't... but never neither nor!"
now, something to soothe Kadir's anxiety when he wrote that Malaysian Muslims are so protected that he often wondered if they can withstand "ujian."
maybe he hasn't been reading the Holy Book lately, because, if he did, then he would surely know that the question does not arise because, "For Allah guides Whom He will To a path That is straight." (2:213)
furthermore, "... Every soul draws the meed of it's acts on none but itself: no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another... " (6:164)
so, Kadir... stop thinking like a Demi-God and save your worries for yourself because, verily, we are all judged by our own actions... have you ever withheld the truth from being printed in the newspaper that you used to run?
or, conversely, did you ever allow untruths to be printed?
justify it or spin it whichever way you see fit... but at the end of the day, the truth will out!
and, to the censorship board... the same applies!
I'm torn over whether or not Robert Spencer's book should be banned, as he's an asotundingly ignorant hate-monger. But I suppose it would be okay if it were available here, then people could read it (those tricked into buying it, anyway) and realise just what a vile person he really is.
ReplyDeleteI'm a tue bibliophile, having in my collection "Nine Parts of Desire" by Geraldine Brooks, and karen Armstrong's "A History of God"...they were banned years after enough people (including me) purchase them in bookshops around the city (snigger!). I also have gibran's "The Prophet", which i heard is banned as well.
ReplyDeleteA BAN WONT STOP me from getting copies. thanks for the info, rocky.
farha.
Lets not brood over this !!
ReplyDeleteInstead try reading whats available even if its different.
Now that we know what a BAN brings about we should appreciate whats available and then grow from there.
Wisemann.
It is strange that some of us think that the banning of books (islamic ones) is the result of the hadari thing. [why must some people politicise everything?]
ReplyDeleteBooks about and relating/associated with islam have always been banned even before the regime of AAB.
On another point, some generalised that every one who reads these books are wise and intelligent enough to know the real truth and know facts about islam and is able to diferentiate. In that every readers (everywhere in the world), moslems and non-moslems alike - hey, the books are not meant for moslems only, has the same capability and capacity! OMG, what gross injustice!
Book ban: the two faces of Islam Hadhari
ReplyDeleteIsmail Che Yahaya (Malaysiakini.com, Feb 11, 2008)
On Jan 29, the Malaysian government banned 11 books, one of them The Two Faces of Islam: Saudi Fundamentalism and Its Role in Terrorism authored by Stephen Schwartz, a Muslim convert.
Schwartz suggested that ‘Saudi-Wahhabi agents’ in Malaysia had become alarmed by the publication of the book in Bahasa Indonesia, Dua Wajah Islam.
In a protest statement against the Malaysian ban, Schwartz commented: ‘It’s contemptible and, frankly, reveals the backward-looking attitudes of authorities in Malaysia, a country which prides itself on its alleged modernisation as an economic tiger.
‘In reality, books cannot be banned today. They are smuggled, pirated – especially in Southeast Asia – downloaded, and, in the case of my book, can easily be imported from Indonesia and read by Malaysians who do not know English’.
Regardless of Schwartz’s wild guess, book banning in Malaysia of late has gone beyond ‘Saudi- Wahhabi agents’.
Before The Two Faces of Islam, the Internal Security Ministry banned four titles on religious fundamentalism over two years. They are: Islamic Fundamentalism since 1945 (banned on 7 June 2007), Feminism and Islamic Fundamentalism: The Limits of Postmodern Analysis (26 April 2007), The Battle for God: Fundamentalism in Judaism, Christianity and Islam (8 June 2006) and, A Fundamental Fear: Eurocentrism and The Emergence of Islamism (8 June 2006).
See the ministry's full list of banned books here.
Islamic fundamentalism is a broad phenomenon, not solely engineered or funded by the Saudi regime. In fact, fundamentalism is no longer a Christian or Muslim political landscape. It has gained currency and inflicted other religions too.
Karen Armstrong, in her banned book, describes religious fundamentalism of the 20th century as a response to modern, liberal, materialist globalised civilization. She writes: ‘The West has developed an entirely unprecedented and wholly different type of civilisation, so the religious response to it has been unique’.
Religious fundamentalists, she elaborates, ‘have absorbed the pragmatic rationalism of modernity, and, under the guidance of their charismatic leaders, they refine these ‘fundamentals’ so as to create an ideology that provides the faithful with a plan of action’.
Therefore, it is of no surprise that even Buddhism, Sikhism, Hinduism and Confucianism have developed fundamentalist factions.
That is why I find the banning is so overwhelming in that it shows the ‘two faces’ of Islam Hadhari as formulated by our present prime minister. On one hand, he tries to promote more tolerant, progressive and moderate Islam but on the other hand, his government has time and again banned such scholarly books on fundamentalism.
Does it mean our government is protecting and nurturing a fundamentalist mindset among Muslims? Has his Islam Hadhari project been infiltrated by fundamentalist elements in his bureaucracy?
Source: http://www.malaysiakini.com/letters/77904